Actress Lupe Ontiveros

DATE October 17, 2002 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Bill Keller discusses Russia's position on the US
going to war with Iraq
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

New York Times Op-Ed columnist Bill Keller returned last week from a
three-week trip to Russia. After watching a popular Russian TV talk show
whose subject was the possibility of war with Iraq, Keller wrote, `You could
fairly sum up the Russian consensus about Iraq this way: In threatening Iraq,
President Bush is mainly after cheap oil and probably some cheap votes in the
next election. America may pretend to be promoting lofty democratic ideals,
but America likes the tyrants who serve its interests. The Bush overtures to
the UN are laughably insincere. And whatever happens it will be bad for
Russia and terrible for ordinary Iraqis. America could care less about that.'

Bill Keller was The New York Times Moscow bureau chief from 1989 to '91. He
later served as the paper's foreign editor. Since 2001, he's been a columnist
and senior writer for the Times Magazine. I asked him to explain where the
Russian government stands on the possibility of America going to war with Iraq.

Mr. BILL KELLER (The New York Times Magazine): Russia's official position is
strongly opposed, and it matters, among other reasons, because they have a
veto on the Security Council at the UN. President Putin says he is not
convinced that Saddam represents the kind of threat that America says he is.
I think in the end, if America does end up going to war against Iraq, Putin
probably will not stand in the way. He's already shown that he's willing to,
you know, when it comes down to the final decision, to accommodate American
interests. He wants to be a member of the kind of club of civilized
countries, and I think that's important for Russia, and he's right in that.
And so he's given in to the administration on things like the ABM Treaty, on
NATO expansion, and I'm sure he would at least not be the sole barrier to an
American invasion.

His opposition is very popular in Russia. I think the prevailing view
there--it was interesting just to step outside of our little self-absorbed
world and look at us from somewhere else. I have a long fondness for Russia,
so it happens to be a set of bleachers that I like to look at the world from.
And there is a deep cynicism among Russians--and I think this is true in much
of Europe and much of the Middle East, probably a fair part of Asia; the
cynicism about our motivations--people say that they think it's really about
oil, they think that America doesn't really care what the rest of the world
thinks, and they think whatever happens is probably going to be bad for Iraq
and bad for Russia.

GROSS: What are Russia's interests in Iraq and the Persian Gulf region?

Mr. KELLER: They have real interests, and I think legitimate interests.
Part of the problem is getting the administration to publicly acknowledge
this. You know, Russia has very few countries that are willing to buy its
manufactured products. It can always sell oil and other minerals and timber
and things like that, but to be a developed country you have to sell things
that you make, and there aren't very many customers for the things that Russia
makes. Three of them happen to be the countries that we call the axis of
evil--Iraq, Iran and North Korea, and Iraq is a big customer for Russia.
There's about $4 billion a year in sales, which for Russia is serious money.
A lot of that is equipment related to the oil industry and, you know, there
are a lot of Russians working in the Iraqi oil fields. So that's one big
interest.

Another is that Russia is a big oil producer itself, and there's a real fear
in Russia that if the United States goes in and kind of controls the Iraqi oil
flow, we will be strongly tempted to pump a lot of oil out of Iraq to drive
down the price so that we can have cheap oil, and if we drive down the price
of oil, that could have devastating consequences for Russia's economy.

GROSS: Iraq also owes Russia billions of dollars.

Mr. KELLER: That's right. They have a long-standing debt. There's some
considerable argument about whether they would ever collect that with or
without Saddam Hussein, but they do have real debts. The administration's
public posture on this--well, they haven't really had a public posture on
this. I guess my suspicion is that they're saving it as a bargaining chip for
somewhere sort of in the end game when they want Russia to either abstain in a
Security Council vote or in some other way, you know, stand aside. In the
event of a military intervention, they will say, `In exchange for this, we
will promise that you get kind of a, you know, place near the front of the
line when we pay off the countries that are owed by Iraq.'

GROSS: Now in addition to the fact that Russia could cast a veto vote in the
Security Council, what would be the advantages of having Russia on our side if
we do go to war with Iraq?

Mr. KELLER: Well, I think it's highly unlikely that Russia would ever
participate in a war with Iraq. I think there's an advantage in having Russia
on our side, period. All three of these countries that the administration has
put at the top of their list as, you know, potential threats to us, they're
neighbors and trading partners of Russia. Russia has relationships with them
that could be useful to us. Specifically in Iraq, if we go in, the Russians
really do know the lay of the land. They have a lot of people who work there.
They know the oil industry, for example. In a larger sense, you know, Russia
does have all of that oil, and if Iraq changes hands, then probably the nature
of OPEC, and the nature of the world oil markets--which I do not pretend to be
an expert in--but the nature of those markets is going to change, and having
Russia as a significant partner in our own future supplies of oil would be
extremely useful.

And the other thing which is always worth remembering is, you know, Russia is
still--I think Senator Biden refers to it as the candy store of candy stores.
It is the world's largest repository of material that could be used in making
a nuclear weapon. Securing that stuff and preventing it from getting into the
hands of a terrorist depends on having a good, cordial, mutually respectful
relationship with Russia.

GROSS: Yeah. You know, in this era, where we're certainly very worried about
a small nuclear device being used as a terrorist weapon within the United
States or against American interests abroad, I'm wondering if, during your
trip to Russia, if you got a sense that Russians were worried about rogue
nuclear weapons or the use of, you know, radium to create a nuclear
weapon--because Russia has so many nuclear weapons that are unaccounted
for--if they're worried about this?

Mr. KELLER: Not on this trip, but on an earlier trip in February I spent
quite a bit of time talking to people who deal with these issues in Russia,
official people and then Russians--there are a number of think tanks that have
largely been subsidized by American foundations to help deal with this issue.
And, yes, they are concerned. They take the threat of terrorism seriously. I
mean, sometimes they're a little facile about, you know, using the war on
terror to kind of justify what they're doing in Chechnya, but they do realize
that terrorism is a threat that touches them.

There are conflicting pressures there. One of them is the nuclear industry in
Russia is a fairly powerful constituency, has been for a long time, and under
its previous leaders it did a lot of kind of sub-rosa business with certainly
Iran, maybe with other places, and they've tended to regard nuclear material
as a commodity rather than a threat. I'm told that has changed pretty
substantially. Putin and Bush have talked about it. They talked about it in
their meeting in Crawford earlier this year, and I think the Russians take it
much more seriously. But there's still a lot of things that slow it down.
One of them is the commercial interests. Another one is the just mutual
suspicion. You know, we're willing to pay the Russians to put up fences and
detectors around bunkers where they keep their weapons and to help them dilute
highly enriched uranium so that it can't be used in making a homemade bomb,
but that requires access, and the militaries on both sides have been reluctant
to grant the kind of access that's necessary to really get those programs
going.

GROSS: I don't know if you have a sense of this or not, but, you know,
President Bush and Putin were getting along pretty well before September 11th,
and now they're not seeing eye to eye on Iraq. What do you think that's done
to their relationship?

Mr. KELLER: You know, we always slightly overpersonalize our international
relations. I think that's a peculiarly American foible, you know. The first
President Bush fell madly in love with Mikhail Gorbachev to the point where he
was kind of blinded to the fact that Gorbachev was losing it. You know, Bill
Clinton had this tempestuous love affair with Boris Yeltsin. The thing that
I've kind of liked about the relationship between Bush and Putin is that it's
been a much more sober--I mean literally and figuratively--kind of
businesslike, pragmatic relationship. It's mostly been one way. The US says,
`We want to do this,' and the Russians, after objecting and objecting and
objecting, say, `OK.'

But up until September 11th, Russia had not been treated as an irrelevance.
They've gotten much greater say in NATO. We have a new arms control agreement
with them which the Russians very much wanted and like. So, you know, up
until September 11th, the relationship's really seemed to be on a kind of
surprisingly mature footing. But you can almost see Putin wince now, you
know, at the American attitude. There is a kind of--you know, you remember
the Lily Tomlin character back on "Saturday Night Live," you know, the
telephone operator. `We don't care, we don't have to. We're the phone
company.'

GROSS: Right. Ernestine.

Mr. KELLER: Yeah, Ernestine. I think that's what the Russians hear when
George Bush talks. You know, there's a petulance and an impatience and--you
know, I don't sit in the room with the two men, so I don't know how, if at
all, it's affected their personal relationship, but it's certainly affected
the body language and the tone, and it's affected the way the Russian elites,
the Russian intellectuals and officials and commentators there think about us.

GROSS: Well, Bill Keller, I want to thank you very much for talking with us.

Mr. KELLER: A pleasure.

GROSS: Bill Keller is an Op-Ed columnist for The New York Times and a senior
writer for The Times Magazine.

Coming up, Lupe Ontiveros, star of the new film "Real Women Have Curves."
This is FRESH AIR.

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Interview: Lupe Ontiveros discusses her career in acting
TERRY GROSS, host:

If you saw actress Lupe Ontiveros, you'd likely recognize her from one of her
many roles as a maid. That is, unless you recognized her as the murderer in
the film "Selena," which starred Jennifer Lopez as the young Latina pop star.
The role Ontiveros considers her breakthrough was in the recent independent
film "Chuck & Buck" in which she played a theater manager.

Now Ontiveros is starring in the new movie "Real Women Have Curves." It won
the Dramatic Audience Award at this year's Sundance Film Festival. Ontiveros
plays Carmen, a strict mother of two daughters. Her younger daughter was won
a scholarship to Columbia University, but Carmen wants her to stay home and
work in her older sister's dress factory. Another conflict revolves around
weight. Carmen and her two daughters are heavy, and she often pressures the
younger one to slim down. In this scene they're both in a restaurant where
Carmen is eating a rich flan. She's just returned from the doctor where she
expected to have confirmation that she's pregnant, and instead was told she's
going through menopause.

(Soundbite from "Real Women Have Curves")

Unidentified Woman: Mom, the doctor said no sugar. Why are you eating a
flan?

Ms. LUPE ONTIVEROS (As Carmen): I'm having a craving.

Unidentified Woman: But you're not pregnant, Mom.

Ms. ONTIVEROS: OK. I'm going through the change of life. It's over. I'm no
longer a woman.

Unidentified Woman: Mom. Mom.

Ms. ONTIVEROS: A grandmother is what I should be at this age. You know,
Ana, you're not bad looking. If you lost weight...

Unidentified Woman: Just stop it.

Ms. ONTIVEROS: ...you could be beautiful.

Unidentified Woman: Stop it. You're overweight, too! So why should I listen
to you?

Ms. ONTIVEROS: Ana, don't eat the flan.

GROSS: In "Real Women Have Curves" and in a bunch of your movies, you have an
accent, which you don't have in real life. Who are some of the voices that
have been in your head that you've drawn on for the accent that you've used in
your movies?

Ms. ONTIVEROS: Oh, none at all. It's an art. You know, you just apply it
when you have to. And I've gone up for auditions and when I speak the way I
do and I think the way you hear me thinking, I don't get the part because a
woman like me, I'm too--I guess too peasant-looking, ethnic-looking, whatever,
and I'm a mamacita and I have to sound and look like one. I mean, I look like
one but I have to sound like one or I don't get the part. Now there was a
difference. There was a time where it didn't matter and that was because
Miguel Arteta from "Chuck & Buck" said `I have a role for you,' and as soon as
he said, `Her name is Beverly,' I said, `You've got it. I don't have to read
the script. I'll do it.' Her name is Beverly, for God's sake. It's not
Concepcion Martinez de la Hoya(ph) and all this, you know.

GROSS: Now you estimate that you've played maids in about 150 movies and TV
shows. I want you to run through just a list of some of the maids you've
played.

Ms. ONTIVEROS: Maids? Oh, my goodness. Maids for everything. Look
at--What's his name?--Nicholson, Jack Nicholson in "As Good As It Gets." That
kind of a maid where she's a religious kind of very warm human being, and then
there's the maid in--What you call it?--what did I do recently with Todd
Solondz--"Storytelling." Now that was a creature to be reckoned with, one of
these wretched human beings, you know.

GROSS: You set the house on fire at the end, you're so resentful.

Ms. ONTIVEROS: Oh, that was the best part.

GROSS: Yeah.

Ms. ONTIVEROS: I didn't know that I was going to do that until we were on the
set. He says, `You know you're going to blow up the house?' I said, `Oh boy.
Boy, have I wanted to do this for a long time.' And let's see--maids.
Beverly Hills maids, office maids--what can I tell you? It's always somebody
else's maid, you know. I'm always doing a service for someone else. But I'll
tell you this much, that I've done it very proudly, because as I said before
to folks, I said those folks, those hands, those people that come to bring you
the service to your table, to bring that--pick your grapes and bring you the
grapes to your table and through a glass of wine, the people that wash your
latrine, that watch your kids, you know, that bring them peace, bring children
peace at night when their parents aren't there, I think that I owe them to
give their characters life and love and soul and humor. So it's really been a
pleasure to do that.

GROSS: Now you were telling us you grew up in El Paso. Your parents owned a
tortilla factory and they owned restaurants as well. Do I have that right?

Ms. ONTIVEROS: Yes. They had two restaurants...

GROSS: So...

Ms. ONTIVEROS: ...and properties and such. They were non-educated people. I
was born and raised in Texas, in El Paso, Texas. It's a border town and my
parents had businesses. They had factories and restaurants. And the folks
that would cross the border from Mexico, Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, to El Paso,
Texas, were the people that worked at my mother's factories, and that was my
greatest resource. That's where my hard drive went into action, storing all
of those adventures and all those conversations I used to hear, all the dirty
jokes I used to hear that I learned and, you know, behaviors and what have
you.

GROSS: You were a social worker for years. I mean, even when you started
acting, you had a day job as a social worker.

Ms. ONTIVEROS: Yes. Yes.

GROSS: What kind of social work did you do?

Ms. ONTIVEROS: Well, I would--I worked in various facets of it. I was
working with the developmentally disabled. I worked for immigration. I
worked for Head Start. I worked with the seniors program evaluating their
services, what have you.

GROSS: How did you start acting?

Ms. ONTIVEROS: It was really a joke. It was on a dare to myself. I was, you
know, in transition from one job to the other and I came across an article in
the paper that was looking for extras and I kind of was talking out loud and I
said to my husband, `What do you think if I--do you think I should'--I was
trying to decide, should I go back and get a nursing degree, should I do this,
should I do that? And there was that job opening there and he said, `Do
whatever the heck you want.' Now he says he's sorry he said that, because I
took--I do have a tendency to run with the ball, take the bull by the horns
and go with it.

GROSS: So when you're walking through the streets and people recognize you...

Ms. ONTIVEROS: Yes.

GROSS: ...who do they often most recognize you as? What are the roles you're
best known for?

Ms. ONTIVEROS: Oh, I'm the killer of Selena.

GROSS: The killer of Selena?

Ms. ONTIVEROS: I'm the killer of Selena. And so far, so good. I haven't had
anybody chase me down the street. But--oh, there was a very interesting--what
happened one day, I was going into the ladies rest room and I was going into
the stall and this lady just stood in front of me and grabbed me and pulled me
out again and she said, `You are her, aren't you? I have a bet with my friend
that you are she.' And I said, `Excuse me?' I knew where she was going. She
said, `You killed Selena, didn't you?' And I said, `Let me go do my business.
I'll come up and then I'll tell you.' So she let go of me.

GROSS: Yeah, so "Selena" is the movie...

Ms. ONTIVEROS: And it's the working class that recognizes me and I'm very
happy. You know what the greatest graceful thing that happens to me in and by
my people is that they give me a blessing. Nobody has to give anybody else a
blessing, you know what I'm saying? And they come up and they say, `You make
me so proud. Your work makes me feel so proud to be a Latina.' And I--you
know, now, coming to the present time is that we're praying that this film
makes us even prouder.

GROSS: Well, Lupe Ontiveros, I want to thank you so much for talking with us.

Ms. ONTIVEROS: Thank you.

GROSS: Lupe Ontiveros stars in the new film "Real Women Have Curves." It
opens in New York and Los Angeles this weekend and in more cities in the
coming weeks. I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Interview: Bonnie Hunt discusses her career and her new TV show
"Life with Bonnie"
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

Comedian Bonnie Hunt has a new ABC sitcom called "Life with Bonnie." She
plays a woman with her hands full on two fronts. At work, she hosts the daily
morning TV show "Morning Chicago," in which she interviews guests, but is best
known for her funny banter and monologues. At home, she has three kids and a
busy husband who is a doctor. "Life with Bonnie" is Bonnie Hunt's fifth
sitcom and the first that seems to be really catching on. Part of each
episode features Bonnie hosting "Morning Chicago." This part is improvised.
Here she is on the air with the station's weatherman, Johnny Volcano, played
by David Duchovny. Volcano has just made a new movie.

(Soundbite of "Life with Bonnie")

Ms. BONNIE HUNT: (As Bonny Malloy) You know what? I'm embarrassed to start
off with a question you probably get all the time. You know, so many people
in our business change their names to suit their jobs and you have such a
fantastic name for a weatherman...

Mr. DAVID DUCHOVNY: (As Johnny Volcano) Yes.

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) ...Johnny Volcano.

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) Yeah, I'm guilty of that.

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) Are you really? That's not your real name, then? No?

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) Yeah. Yeah. No. No. My name was Victor.

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) Victor?

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) Victor Volcano.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) You know, I would have never--really, I would have
never guessed that.

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) Yeah.

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) But, you know, there's a lot of things I don't know
about you. Now you're making movies. That's very exciting.

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) That's right. Well, I--there's a lot of attention
being generated by the film. I did a lot of heat...

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) Heat.

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) ...as we say. There's a buzz.

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) Buzz.

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) There's a buzzing...

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) Buzzing.

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) ...about the film that I did.

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) You mean in the film community?

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) No, in the weather community.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) Well, that's certainly an untapped market. I mean,
there's a lot of people out there in the weather community looking for
entertainment. And you just--one day you're doing the weather and you say,
`Listen, I'm going to write and direct and act in this movie...'

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) And star.

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) Star. Write, direct and starred in...

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) Yeah. "Aversion Equivalent."

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) ..."Aversion Equivalent." Wow, that's the first
time...

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) "A.E.."

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) "A.E."

Mr. DUCHOVNY: (As Volcano) "A.E."

GROSS: Bonnie Hunt, welcome to FRESH AIR.

Because your character on "Life with Bonnie" is the host of a local morning TV
show, you must have had to watch a lot of those shows so you'd know what you
were writing. So did you spend a lot of time watching local and national talk
shows?

Ms. HUNT: No, I didn't, but I have spent a lot of time on those shows. As an
actress, certainly one at my level where you're a character actress, when a
movie comes out like "The Green Mile" or "Jerry Maguire" or "Jumanji," you're
sent on the road, and you go state to state every single day doing local
morning talk shows. And I've done that for the last 10 years whenever I've
had a movie come out. And it's been quite an experience. And it's been fun.
You know, you meet all these different characters and see the way these
people's lives are and what their local shows--what's hip on them, what their
little niche is, what their catch phrases are.

But for the most part, this just stems from Don Lake and I just writing it as
performers, you know, what would be a fun morning talk show, and mostly, too,
it comes from Bonnie Malloy's point of view, you know, the character's point
of view on the show.

GROSS: Now one of the things your character, Bonnie, is famous for is she
that really doesn't read the books and, you know, she does a lot of, like,
cheating and she's not famous for being prepared. She's famous for being
funny and really entertaining and telling great stories. Did you get
interviewed by a lot of people in those years on the road who really didn't
have a clue who you were?

Ms. HUNT: That is a great question, and absolutely it happened all the time.
And you can tell the difference when somebody's faking their way through an
interview. And, you know, halfway through, you're finding yourself so
insulted that you're thinking, `I came down here at 6:30 AM and you haven't
read one thing? At least read my resume.' And that happens all the time.

And I think for the character that I'm playing on the show, you know, her
priority is her family and her children, and when she gets home, she's just
deeply ensconced in that situation. So she's willing to forego the reading of
an extra book or whatever she has to prepare for the next day, and that she'll
wing that part of her life, her professional part of her life, but not her
personal part of her life.

GROSS: Now how did you learn how to wing doing an interview when the person
interviewing you really didn't have clue who you were?

Ms. HUNT: I usually used humor. You know, I would just--sometimes, I would
call a spade a spade and say, `You don't know anything I've done, do you?' and
the crew would laugh, you know, the "Good Morning" whatever it was crew would
laugh. But for the most part, you know, you just get through the interview
and hopefully have some honesty and integrity, because people respond to it.
They do. People at home watching either get it or they don't, and I certainly
don't want to be a phony to them.

GROSS: I think this is your fifth sitcom? Do I have that right?

Ms. HUNT: Yes, my fifth time out.

GROSS: And this one looks like it's doing very well in the ratings so far.
Did you sit down and wonder, `What went wrong with the others? Why weren't
they hits, and are there lessons I want to learn from that or things that I
want to ignore about those lessons because I just want to do it my way, one or
the other?' I mean, what kind of, like, diagnosis did you do on the other
shows?

Ms. HUNT: Well, it is true, you do take the time to reflect--I mean, not
only during the process, but afterwards. And then when things don't pan out,
you know, with the best-case scenario, you do think, you know, `What could I
change? What could I do differently?' But I've always been fortunate enough
to, in the moment, remember to fail by my own standards, so I live with little
regret about those times. I always did my best job, I maintained my creative
integrity and, when it doubt, I would walk out, and that's what I did with
"The Building." I mean, that series was picked up by the network, it was
renewed, but creatively, they wanted to make so many changes that I canceled
it myself. And, you know, it was hard for them to understand that because I
was turning down a lot of money and the opportunity for a regular job in this
business is very seductive. But I didn't regret that because that show became
my calling card for the next show that I eventually wrote and produced, "The
Bonnie Hunt Show," and that had a similar fate. I was at the changing of the
guard at the network, but it was a good show and everybody--they did their
best, but we just didn't get the ratings and that happens.

This show, I believe, I took the combination of what was best of those last
two shows and the films that Don and I have written, and just the experience
does help you a lot, like you said. You know, what do you take? What did you
learn? What do you forget? What do you bring back with you? You know, you
do take an inventory. But for the most part, I knew I wanted to put myself in
a situation where I could play at the top of my intelligence, and yet be
vulnerable, and I don't know if I had all those qualities in the other shows.

GROSS: Can you describe some of the things the network wanted you to do to
change "The Building," things you didn't like so that you ended the series?

Ms. HUNT: Yeah. And it was not so--you know, every time that they come to
you with notes, if they're thought-provoking and we're all respectful to each
other, I'm always willing to work at the table and negotiate creatively. My
situation at CBS at the time was not one of creative respect. It was a
constant power struggle. And when they came to me to discuss the show, it
wasn't, `We think this is best for the show' or `We think this would be more
creative,' it was just `You have to--we want you to replace three of the
actors with actors that we already have on hold at the network for development
deals.' It was not a decision that was made in the best interests of the
show. It was just a decision that was made because there was somebody in a
position of power that had people that were on hold and under contract that
they were paying money to that were just going to be plugged into my show.
And I thought it would jilt it right out of everything that we had worked so
hard up until that point to display and to build for our characters.

And their theory--and I said, `These are my friends that I work with. I do
not want to call them and say, "The show is picked up, but you're not on it."'
And the executive at the time offered to make the phone calls himself, and I
said, `That's really not the point.' So, you know, it was a valuable lesson
for me and I'm sure for them, as well. I mean, they came back to me six
months later with double the money to do another series, and I did the next
series with them, but not this one.

GROSS: My guest is Bonnie Hunt. Her new ABC sitcom is called "Life with
Bonnie." More after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: Bonnie Hunt is my guest. She co-created and stars in the new TV
series "Life with Bonnie."

Did you do stand-up, really, in your career?

Ms. HUNT: No, I never did do stand-up. I've always been an ensemble
performer. It's what I love, it's what I'm comforted by. I'm six out of
seven children, so I guess it's just what I'm used to. The essence of
teamwork is inspiring to me, and I'm constantly motivated by it creatively.

GROSS: Now you started an improv group with Joan Cusack, the actress. Why
did you want to start your own group? Chicago's famous for its improv groups,
including Second City.

Ms. HUNT: Well, I think in the '80s, improvisation was so at the forefront,
especially in Chicago and New York. And Second City is a theater that I grew
up going to, I mean, since I was 13, 14 years old with my folks. But at the
time, when I met Joan and Holly Wortell, who's also on my show now, I was a
nurse, I worked at Northwestern University in Chicago in the oncology
department, but I was an avid Second City fan, and I would go sometimes two,
three nights a week to see the improvisational sets.

And then when the auditions came up, eventually I tried out. But during that
time at night, while we were all trying to get into the Second City, Joan
Cusack, Holly Wortell and myself were in a company called An Impulsive Thing.
We were the three girls with about seven guys, and we worked at a place called
Bob's Bar, which was across the street from Wrigley Field in Chicago. And it
was a fantastic, incredible experience. I'll probably never be able to
replicate it; the joy, the teamwork. It was all about putting on a good show.
We did 45 minutes of new material nightly. It was kind of a potpourri of the
talent of the group all mixed up together, all the different takes we had on
things.

GROSS: Now you started your professional life as a nurse with people with
cancer. Why did you go into nursing? Did you always really want to go into
performing?

Ms. HUNT: I just love to be around people. And I think that performing is
kind of like a caregiving situation. I think my patients obviously were truly
inspirational. I mean, when you're dealing with people that are at the end of
their lives, you are given a gift of a certain perspective that, at the age
of, you know, 20, 21 years old, you--probably would never even cross your
mind. So in that respect, I loved being a nurse, I wanted to be a nurse, I
gave 150 percent to being a nurse. But at the same time, I always had this
kind of tug, this calling, to be an entertainer. I've always loved it, and I
was able to do both for a long time. I worked at Second City at night while I
worked at the hospital during the day.

And then eventually I worked with a patient named Rudy that had only a few
weeks to live, and I had been taking care of him for months. And he said to
me, `When are you going to go to California and really try to be a writer,
director or storyteller? Because that's what you're so good at.' And I was
sitting next to his bed talking to him and I said, `Oh, you know, I'd hate to
go and then fail and have to come back and explain everything, and then get my
job back at the hospital.' And he said, `Bonnie, I only have a little time
left to live, and I want to tell you the biggest regret in my life is that I
feared failure. So I want you to promise me that you'll go to California and
you will fail many times.' And I said, `OK, Rudy, I will,' and I did, and I
have.

GROSS: Did you never go back to nursing after that?

Ms. HUNT: I always went back. I went back for years. I would work over the
holidays at the same hospital, and then eventually, I moved on to the VA
Hospital and worked with the vets and continued it for a long time. And now I
have a relationship with the doctors that I worked for at Northwestern for
fund-raising for cancer research.

GROSS: So when you were a nurse, would you entertain the patients?

Ms. HUNT: The patients really got involved with the fact that I did these
shows at night. It added, I think, another and better layer to my skills as a
nurse and the heartfelt moments between the patients and myself. I would
often bring down the cast from Second City, and we would push the beds into
the hallways and we would do our show in the hallway for all the patients that
were terminally ill that weren't on an outpatient basis.

And they, in turn, would give me skit ideas that I would bring to the improv
set. I would have them videotaped and the next day bring them back to the
hospital to say, `Look what we did with your idea.' They found great joy in
it, they always inspired me and encouraged me and I was able to give them
something else that they would think about just for a moment to forget the
anxiety and fear and pain that they might have been in at the time. And I
found it just an important part of it. And I believe, you know, certainly,
I've had so much success because probably I have a lot of guardian angels.

GROSS: So when you decided to leave the Chicago hospital where you worked and
go to LA at the advice of one of your patients, what was your strategy when
you got there?

Ms. HUNT: Oh, I didn't have one. I had just been married, and my husband and
I agreed that I would go for six months and give it a whirl because I had
promised Rudy, and my husband thought it would be good for us, our future,
that at least I had given it a shot and that I wouldn't live in `What if?
What if I would have tried?' in years to come. So I went out to LA with the
Second City company. They opened a theater there in Santa Monica. I wrote
and performed in the first revue, and then Second City decided that they were
going to do more of a TV format within their improvisational set. I had met
Don Lake there. Don and I both agreed that creatively that was so the
opposite of what Second City was. Second City for us was the U of C grads in
the early '60s that were commenting on what was in the paper that day and what
was happening in the country and on the news, and not necessarily try and do
material that would end up as a sitcom.

So we were kind of purists and decided that we would give two weeks notice to
the theater, which we both did, and it was a terrifying thing to do because it
was the only income we had out in LA. But within weeks, we were both rewarded
with jobs on network television, which had its own creative battle.

But that's what happened out there. I really didn't have a plan, and I was
lucky enough to stay with many friends in exchange for maybe cleaning up the
house or, you know, paying the phone bill or whatever I could afford at the
time.

GROSS: My guest is Bonnie Hunt, the co-creator, writer and star of the new TV
series "Life with Bonnie."

So what was it like growing up with three brothers and three sisters?

Ms. HUNT: Well, it was a joy. I mean, we didn't have a lot of money, but I
never knew the difference, because my mother was always an optimist and in a
good mood, and she just set the tone. My father was a hard-working,
blue-collar, self-taught electrician. He worked 20 hours a day. But he had
an incredible gift for storytelling. They were an incredible team. My father
died when I was 18. He died from a heart attack. And then the kids just came
together, and we all pitched in to make sure that we could keep the house and
pay the bills and help take care of my mother, and she, in turn, helped take
care of us.

We always had our grandparents live with us when they got old and sick, and we
took care of them until they passed away, and they were always in our home. I
had an incredible childhood. There was a lot of bad moments and hectic
moments and, you know, family politics and what have you. But for the most
part, at the core of it, there was unconditional love and that's just about
all a kid needs.

GROSS: How many bathrooms did you have in the house?

Ms. HUNT: We had one...

GROSS: Uh-oh.

Ms. HUNT: ...and then eventually, my dad built another one.

GROSS: How did so many of you make it out of the house in the morning with
only one bathroom?

Ms. HUNT: My mom would start ringing the bell--a couple of us were very early
risers. My younger sister Mary and two of my older brothers were just early
birds, and the other ones--you know, we would sleep in. There was just always
a revolving door, and somehow magically we would all get out of the house, but
we were never, ever, ever on time for anything.

GROSS: Now I read that your mother used to sing.

Ms. HUNT: Right. She sang for years. She used to sing on the "Morris B.
Sachs Radio Hour" in Chicago, live from the Merchandise Mart, and she worked
at NBC at the Merchandise Mart for years. She wrote for the soap operas and
then worked for the president there, eventually, worked with him side-by-side
until she had my first brother, and then she quit. And then, as she says, she
gave birth to her audience.

GROSS: Did she sing a lot around the house?

Ms. HUNT: Always. She always sang around the house. And the song that I
sang in the second episode of our show, the song "Dream," was the song that
she would sing at night if we couldn't sleep. And I remember asking her to
sing it over and over and over again. She's also great on the piano. She
plays by ear. She's just very gifted and talented and, you know, very loving.

GROSS: Did that inspire you to sing, too? Since she was so free-singing
around the house, did you grow up singing around the house, too?

Ms. HUNT: The first time I remember singing where I sang the whole song over
and over again was when our dog, Whiskey, had drowned in Lake Michigan, and I
was inconsolable. And my mom said, `The only way you're going to stop crying
is if you sing, and you have to sing over and over and over again. You just
got to keep singing till you stop crying.' And I remember I sang "You Are My
Sunshine" with her, and I kept singing it and singing it until I stopped
crying. And it was just a valuable--I don't know. It was nice. I think
singing is comforting, at least it was, you know, in my memories.

GROSS: So did you try that again as a kid?

Ms. HUNT: Oh, yeah. I still do it till this day.

GROSS: You sing when you're really sad?

Ms. HUNT: Yes, absolutely.

GROSS: Is your mother still alive?

Ms. HUNT: Yes, very much so. She's getting a big kick out of this whole
experience for me once again. And I hope that within her lifetime, I will be
able to succeed at one of these television ventures. I think it would do her
heart good.

GROSS: Have you thought about writing in a part for her?

Ms. HUNT: My mom always ends up in everything that I do, whether she's there
in person or just there in character. But she was in "Return to Me," the
movie that we did for MGM. She had a little part in that. And I would love
to bring her out and have her do something.

GROSS: Thank you so much for talking with us.

Ms. HUNT: Oh, thank you. It was a nice interview.

GROSS: Bonnie Hunt's new sitcom, "Life with Bonnie," is broadcast Tuesday
nights on ABC. Here's the scene from the series in which she sang "Dream."

(Soundbite of "Life with Bonnie")

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) (Singing) Dream when you're feeling blue.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) (Singing) Dream, and they might come true.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) (Singing) Things never are as bad as they seem.

Unidentified Man: She sounds good.

Ms. HUNT: (As Malloy) (Singing) So dream, dream, dream.

(Soundbite of applause)

Unidentified Woman: Oh!

GROSS: Coming up, Milo Miles reviews a reissue of the debut album by the
eccentric folk musician Michael Hurley. This is FRESH AIR.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Review: Reissue of Michael Hurley's first album now called
"Blueberry Wine"
TERRY GROSS, host:

Michael Hurley's first album came out in 1965 on the prestigious label
Folkways. But it wasn't like the other acoustic folk albums by Woody Guthrie
and Leadbelly, and it sold poorly; eventually becoming a rarity. Hurley has
never attracted more than a loyal cult audience, and it seems his debut might
never appear in the flood of CD reissues. Critic Milo Miles was always on the
lookout for it, and now his patience has been rewarded.

(Soundbite of song)

Mr. MICHAEL HURLEY: (Singing) No, no, no, I won't go down no more. No, no,
no, I won't go down no more. No, no, I won't go. No, no, I won't go. No,
no, no, I won't go down no more.

MILO MILES reporting:

The first Michael Hurley album I ever heard was called "Armchair Boogie," and
I thought, `What kind of a title is "Armchair Boogie"?' But I've come to
think of it as his most apt, because Michael Hurley does music with a wild and
wiggy interior life, but on the outside it's relaxed and stays pretty much in
the same place. You might say that although Hurley is folk in form, he's
vintage rock 'n' roll in sensibility.

For many years, the Hurley album I most wanted was his debut, "First Songs."
Now, with no fanfare, it's been reissued as "Blueberry Wine," and it was worth
the wait. The universe it comes from is just as strange now as it was almost
40 years ago.

(Soundbite of song)

Mr. HURLEY: (Singing) Down by the pool hall, clickety-clack, and you can
knock those pool balls forth and back. I don't want you hanging 'round my
little sister no more. You move along, you rolling stone. You move along,
you rolling stone.

You get down by the pool hall, clickety-clack, and you can knock those pool
balls forth and back. I don't want you hanging 'round my little sister no
more. You move along...

MILES: Hurley is one of those rare performers who sounds almost routine at
first. But as you listen closer, you decide the guy is very peculiar. In the
song we just heard, he's warning low-lifes away from his little sister. In
another song, he's a low-life himself just loving wine. Elsewhere, he's a
paranoid cosmic cowboy with stars rolling in and out of his ears who wants to
`hear the gong of zero,' whatever that is.

His narrators are sardonically amused that they never fit in. This is the
world of odd fables and mysterious events, celebrated in songs from Howlin'
Wolf's "Smokestack Lightning" to Gene Chandler's "Duke Of Earl." And who but
Hurley would celebrate America's hero astronauts with a song about Captain
Kidd's trip to the moon?

(Soundbite of song)

Mr. HURLEY: (Singing) Captain Kidd done flipped his lid. He done left it
behind. Captain Kidd done flipped his lid. There ain't nothin' left but
cryin.'

(Soundbite of music)

Mr. HURLEY: (Singing) He locked himself in a rocket ship, and he took an
interplanetary trip. He locked himself in a rocket ship, and he took an
interplanetary trip. Captain Kidd got to the moon. He was wavin' his saber
in the air. Captain Kidd soon left the moon 'cause there wasn't any wine up
there.

MILES: The only players in the mid-'60s folk scene who were anything like
Hurley were the Holy Modal Rounders. They and their circle eventually
collaborated with Hurley on one of the most delightful and offbeat albums of
the rock era, "Have Moicy!"

The reissued "Blueberry Wine" is still the perfect introduction to Hurley,
however, not least because it includes the most forceful and vivid rendition
of his most disturbing number, "Werewolf Song."

(Soundbite of "Werewolf Song")

Mr. HURLEY: He goes out in the evenin' when the bats are on the wing. And
he's killed some young maiden before the birds sing. For the werewolf, for
the werewolf, have sympathy, 'cause the werewolf is someone just like you and
me.

MILES: Of all the songs about midnight ramblers and killers with hellhounds
on their trails, "Werewolf Song" is the most haunting because it's so quiet
and plaintive. It's a character sketch that asks you to have sympathy for the
misogynous devil. The full moon comes up and guys just can't control
themselves. In some ways, it's a relic of beatnik machismo, but Hurley makes
it stick like folk wisdom. And while I don't accept that there's a killer
inside ordinary men, Hurley's werewolf is, without question, a charismatic
monster. He's the touch of evil that adds tang to the sad whimsies and
earthly joys of "Blueberry Wine."

GROSS: Milo Miles is a music critic living in Cambridge. The reissue of
Michael Hurley's debut album, called "Blueberry Wine," is on Locust Music in
Chicago.

(Credits)

GROSS: I'm Terry Gross.

(Soundbite of song)

Mr. HURLEY: (Singing) Just a bum all the years that I live. People say that
the time's been wasted sittin' by the fireside, dreamin' all night. Makin'
love drunk in a minute 'neath the pale moonlight...
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