Jazz Pianist Harold Mabern Is In Full Command On 'To Love And Be Loved'

DAVE DAVIES, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Dave Davies, in for Terry Gross. Few exhibition games of any sport are remembered 44 years later. But the 1973 tennis match between self-proclaimed male chauvinist Bobby Riggs and women's tennis trailblazer Billie Jean King captivated the nation. It's the subject of the new film "Battle Of The Sexes," starring Emma Stone as King and Steve Carell as Bobby Riggs. In a few minutes, we'll hear an interview I recorded with Billie Jean King in 2013 commemorating the 40th anniversary of that match. But first, a review of the movie "Battle Of The Sexes" from our critic-at-large John Powers. He says it's an entertaining film that also says a lot about how Americans think about social issues.

JOHN POWERS, BYLINE: Early in Andre Agassi's autobiography, he writes that every tennis match is a life in miniature. But, sometimes, it's even grander than that. You could glimpse a whole culture in miniature when the ardent feminist Billie Jean King squared off against the self-described sexist pig Bobby Riggs at the Houston Astrodome in September of 1973. Their match is now the subject of a breezy, new movie, "Battle Of The Sexes," which carries us back to the heyday of both women's lib and shockingly routine sexism.

Working from a script by Simon Beaufoy, directors Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Faris tease out strands of an epochal pop event that tapped into forces that are still clashing today. On one side, you have King, played by Emma Stone, who's out to liberate women and herself. The top female player at the time, she's at war with the head of the Association of Tennis Professionals, Jack Kramer. That's Bill Pullman, a hard-headed misogynist who believes that men deserve far more prize money, even if women sell the same number of tickets.

In response, King launches a women's tour. As if that weren't radical enough, she also begins discovering her true sexuality, beginning an affair with her hairdresser, played by the always great Andrea Riseborough. In contrast, Steve Carell's Riggs is a 55-year-old Wimbledon champ turned tennis hustler and compulsive gambler, who, tapping into the zeitgeist, comes up with his most brilliant hustle. Insisting that he can beat any woman, he challenges then-number-one Margaret Court, a devout anti-feminist who almost dutifully loses to his dinks and lobs in mortifying fashion.

Puffed up by his newfound fame, this not unlikable scamp goes after bigger game in the outspoken King, an Alpha who accepts in the name of women's advancement. The result is a full-fledged media circus complete with PR stunts, backroom machinations and the abrasive Brooklyn bray of Howard Cosell. Here, King and Riggs drum up excitement with a jaunty press conference.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BATTLE OF THE SEXES")

STEVE CARELL: (As Bobby Riggs) Don't get me wrong. I love women in the bedroom and in the kitchen. But these days, they want to be everywhere. They want to be doing everything. Where is it going to end? Pretty soon, us fellows aren't going to be able to go to a ballgame. We're not going to be able to go fishing. We're going to be able to stop and have a drink after work. And that's what this whole women's lib thing is about. And it's got to stop. And Bobby Riggs is the man to stop it. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Custer's last stand. This is a lobber versus a libber.

EMMA STONE: (As Billie Jean King) Keep talking, Bobby. The more nonsense you spout, the worse it's going to be when you lose.

(LAUGHTER)

CARELL: (As Bobby Riggs) Well, I'm the ladies No. 1. I'm the champ. Why would I lose?

STONE: (As Billie Jean King) Because dinosaurs can't play tennis.

POWERS: As this clip may suggest, the so-called battle of the sexes was, in fact, a textbook pseudo-event, one created to grab media attention and make money. By such standards, it was an astounding success. Forty-four years later, it remains the most watched and talked-about tennis match in history and, surely, the most important.

Though younger listeners may scarcely believe it, if King had lost, it would've damaged the woman's cause for years. Defenders of traditional sex roles would have felt they had vivid proof, watched by millions, that women aren't merely physically smaller and weaker than men but that they also buckle under pressure. Now, it may seem crazy that something like a manufactured tennis match could become a referendum on how we should live. But this is America, folks. "Battle Of The Sexes" serves as a useful reminder of the crazy-huge role that pop culture plays in our national life, where the border between entertainment and real life is more porous than anywhere else.

No other Western country has elected an actor president, let alone a reality TV star. This isn't simply a question of celebrity. You see, pop culture is often the way that mainstream America, especially the mainstream media, deals with social and political issues it prefers not to confront head-on. The argument over gay rights is made indirectly by "Will & Grace," which normalizes gayness. The fight over Black Lives Matter gets deflected into fights about Colin Kaepernick kneeling during the national anthem. And the harsh, winner-take-all nature of today's economy reinforces itself on TV competitions like "Survivor" and, yes, "The Apprentice."

Naturally, such sociopolitical issues are so huge and tricky that pop culture can't really solve them. And so they keep coming back in slightly different forms. "Battle Of The Sexes" is about the showdown between a brash, attention-loving guy who doesn't care all that much whether he wins - it's all good for business - and an earnest feminist opponent weighed down by her sense that she's fighting for a righteous cause. I could almost be describing last year's presidential election - with one big difference, of course - the winner.

DAVIES: John Powers writes about film and TV for Vogue and vogue.com.
DAVE DAVIES, HOST:

Billie Jean King still gets asked about her battle with Bobby Riggs, which occurred 44 years ago this week, more than anything else in her remarkable life. She won a record 20 Wimbledon titles, six of them for singles. She led an uprising of women players demanding fairer treatment and compensation. At 73, King is still active in the game as an owner in World Team Tennis. I spoke to Billie Jean King in 2013 when an "American Masters" documentary about her life was first broadcast.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED BROADCAST)

DAVIES: Well, Billie Jean King, welcome to FRESH AIR. It's great to have you.

BILLIE JEAN KING: Thanks, Dave.

DAVIES: You know, I remember when I was a kid, the girls on the block played baseball with us when we were in grade school, and then, like, when they hit junior high school, then they didn't anymore, and they went on to other things. And, you know, I think you grew up at a time, obviously, when women and girls weren't exactly encouraged to compete in athletics. Talk a little bit about your interest in sports and what kind of encouragement you got from your family.

KING: Well, I got very, very lucky in the family I was born into because my dad was a total jock. He loved basketball. He was in track and field as a younger man. And my dad being a firefighter could play with my brother or me for hours. And I drove my poor dad crazy and wanted to play catch. Probably the third word we ever learned was ball. And we'd always say, Daddy, ball, Mommy, ball. We always wanted to play catch. So it makes sense, if you hear my mom's stories about us as children, very young children, why we ended up one being a Major League Baseball player and, of course, one playing tennis, and both sports have a ball.

DAVIES: Describe the state of tennis when you became a top competitive player in the '60s and what opportunities were open to women then.

KING: Well, there weren't very many opportunities for men or women. We basically were amateurs making about $14 a day. If we stayed in a hotel, they might give us $28.

DAVIES: Wow.

KING: And we had a good life because we played at clubs like the Marion Cricket Club, Philadelphia Germantown - if you're in Philadelphia, people that live there - or at South Orange, if you live in Northern New Jersey. This was kind of our circuit during the summer. But we weren't making much money. And so I started to complain. And, you know, I grew up around the big sports - basketball, football, baseball. And I'm thinking, we should have a professional situation. And we didn't. And I thought, how ridiculous is that?

DAVIES: So in 1968, I guess it was, is when they finally let professionals play in Wimbledon. And the prize money between men and women was massively disparate, right?

KING: Yes. When professional tennis came in, actually before - when we were amateurs, the top women and top men were getting very similar payments to go play. So when the prize money started, they gave us much less, as I mentioned with the Wimbledon example. And there was another challenge (laughter). First we had the challenge of professional tennis and the next challenge is this disparity. But more importantly, the men who owned the tournaments or ran the tournaments started to drop the women's events entirely, most of the places. When they had us, then - when they did have us play and included us, they gave us about a 12 or 11 to 1 ratio of prize money. So this was not fun, you know, fighting for professional tennis. And then the guys decided - but my former husband, Larry King - no, not that Larry King - he...

DAVIES: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

KING: I always say that and people always laugh. Larry said when we go professional, the men will squeeze you out. And these guys were my friends. And so I said, oh, no, they're my friends. They won't do that. He says, oh, yes they will. And Larry was right. That old-boy network became very, very strong and very, very closed.

DAVIES: So you, in effect, led a revolt. I mean, you and a few other top women...

KING: We had to. We were...

DAVIES: So, yeah, you and your fellow players formed the Virginia Slims Tour...

KING: Right. She went - right.

DAVIES: ...Women's tennis tournament. And you advertised. You built it up from the bottom. And how did the tennis establishment react to this upstart venture?

KING: Not happily. And ironically what happened, a year later, the USTA started a rival tour against us. So we had two tours going at once. And so all the top talent was divided. The other tour had Chris Evert, Margaret Court, Virginia Wade, Evonne Goolagong, all these names that I had hoped would have gone with us. And so it was a tough time for all of us. But in 1973 - and that's what we're celebrating this year. It’s the 40, 40, 40 and one of those 40s is the establishment of the Women's Tennis Association, the WTA.

DAVIES: You know, you're, of course, organizing this little revolution at the ripe age of probably - what? - 27, 28. I mean...

KING: In my - yeah, my mid-20s.

DAVIES: ...This is kind of a remarkable story, right. There's a turning point here, an amazing meeting that occurred in - right before the 1973 Wimbledon tournament at the Gloucester Hotel in London. Do you want to describe what happened there?

KING: Well, we called a meeting. It was June 20. It was four days before Wimbledon, just like you said. It was right before. And we somehow were able to get the top players in the same room on June 20. I had Betty Stove, who is a wonderful Dutch player, who came along with us on the Virginia Slims Tour. I said, Betty - she's big and strong and intimidating. So I said, Betty, lock the doors. Don't let anybody out. We have to have this - we're either going to have an association by the time this is over or we're not. And we kind of started laughing. And she looked at me says, don't worry; I'll lock the doors.

So she stood at the back, literally stood there like a security guard. And some of the women did want to leave. And she said, no, you can't leave (laughter). And so we had our vote. And lo and behold, everyone actually heard each other 'cause I got up there to speak as the leader and said, we have to do this, we've got to be, you know, one voice. And we let them ask questions and just tried to answer and persuade them. So all those things got going.

DAVIES: Well, the Battle of the Sexes, your match with Bobby Riggs - when Bobby Riggs initially asked you to play him, you declined?

KING: Yes.

DAVIES: Why?

KING: I declined for a couple years because we'd just started our professional tournaments, women's professional tennis. And I was getting no sleep. I was working so hard. Remember, you just have to visualize. You're going to start a tour. There's no infrastructure. Who's going to own tournaments? Who are we going to get to take the risk, the financial risk of owning a tournament? So all my time was spent trying to get people to do a tournament in different cities with Gladys. And...

DAVIES: So you had more than a full plate.

KING: I was learning marketing, entrepreneurship 101A by the seat of the pants, basically. And we were off and running. It was really hard. And also you have to remember the media that all of us were doing. It was nonstop, morning, noon and night because Virginia Slims had very - had a very good PR aspect and marketing aspect to get the word out. So we were just hustling and just working very, very hard at the media aspect as well.

DAVIES: Sure. So Bobby Riggs convinces Margaret Court to take him on, top-ranked player of the day.

KING: Yes, he did.

DAVIES: He beats her in straight sets. And then you had a - then you decided you had to do it?

KING: Oh, as soon as Margaret lost, I said, I knew I had to do it. I mean, it was a no-brainer. I mean, OK, remember, Title IX had just been passed the year before, June 23, 1972, which was very important to me and many of us that that passed. And it ended up being one of the most important pieces of legislation of the 20th century, particularly for women at the time, even though it talks about no sex discrimination. But we'd been discriminated against. But - so I had - I really didn't want that to be weakened.

I thought with Margaret losing, it would be a good chance for some of the people to start, you know, jumping on the bandwagon to weaken Title IX, to hurt our tour, to hurt women's sports, all the things that I wanted to - the women's movement. All these things were a part of it. So it was very, very important that Margaret win. And when Margaret didn't win in May of 1973, on Mother's Day, it was called the Mother's Day Massacre, she lost 6-2, 6-1, as soon as I found out - we were on our way back from Japan. As soon as I found out in the Hawaii airport, I knew I was definitely going to play Bobby Riggs. I did not have a choice.

DAVIES: Billie Jean King recorded in 2013. We'll hear more after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF RED MITCHELL AND CLARK TERRY'S "SWINGIN' THE BLUES")

DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR. We're listening to my interview recorded in 2013 with Billie Jean King. Her famous match with Bobby Riggs is the subject of the new film "Battle Of The Sexes."

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED BROADCAST)

DAVIES: I want to listen to some of the pre-match buildup here. And what we're going to hear here is a slightly edited montage from the "American Masters" documentary. And we're going to hear you and Bobby Riggs talking to some reporters. And then at the end of it, we'll hear Bobby Riggs with Johnny Carson on "The Tonight Show." Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "AMERICAN MASTERS")

KING: You know, I think that I can beat Bobby. I think I'm better.

BOBBY RIGGS: Well, what makes you think that I won't be able to psych you out...

KING: I'm not Margaret Court. I love pressure. You can try to psych me all you want. I think a lot's at stake for women's lib. I like the idea that I'm playing for someone else besides myself.

RIGGS: I've got 120,000 letters from Bobby's mob. This is the mob of guys all over the world who wrote and told me they were rooting for me. I wouldn't let these guys down for the world.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: This has the atmosphere of a prize fight.

KING: It is. That's exactly what it is.

RIGGS: Never bet against Bobby Riggs, especially when there's big money involved.

KING: He hustles off the court, and I hustle on the court. And that's where it matters.

RIGGS: She's carrying a banner for the women's lib. I'm carrying male is supreme, the male is king no matter what the difference in the age.

KING: It's just a bunch of bologna. First of all, people are people, and some are more supreme than others in different things.

UNIDENTIFIED PEOPLE: Bobby Riggs, rah-rah-rah (ph).

JOHNNY CARSON: Do you like women?

RIGGS: I like them real good in the bedroom, the kitchen, and I really...

CARSON: You're a male chauvinist pig.

DAVIES: And that is our guest...

KING: (Laughter).

DAVIES: ...Billie Jean King with Bobby Riggs before the famed tennis Battle of the Sexes in 1973. You obviously had a lot of joint appearances together with Bobby Riggs building up the attention for the match. Did you feel like you got to know him at all?

KING: Well, actually, Bobby was one of my heroes. I love history. I knew all the champions in our sport preceding me, and I appreciated him. He had won the Triple Crown at Wimbledon. I knew that the Second World War had actually hurt his career, which I felt bad for him because it didn't allow him to get the recognition he deserved. He was finally at least getting recognition. I don't know - everybody - I don't think most people realized what a great champion he had been, even though I would tell them. I don't think they were really tuned into that at the time because...

DAVIES: Well, yeah, he was 55 when he was doing this thing.

KING: He was 55. He was as old as my father. And I told him, I mean, for me to beat him meant absolutely nothing athletically, OK? Nothing. But it's what it represented. And when Margaret lost, you know, I didn't know if I was going to beat him. I thought she would kill him, as far as winning, and she didn't. So I'm like, oh, boy. And I - you never underestimate your opponent anyway. I mean, my parents, my dad, oh, God, that was like - he had two words - always respect your opponent, always, always, always respect them no matter what. And secondly never, ever underestimate them, ever. So these things were just printed in my DNA almost.

So here's a hero of mine. He's going on and on about women in the bedroom, and keep them pregnant and barefooted and all these things, and I'm like, oh, my God. He was funny, but - you know, I like show time. I love entertainment. And I think being a tennis player, you're a performer. So I got that part. And I thought, you know what, Bobby, just go for it. But I'm going to tell you, I'm not letting you get under my skin because I didn't want him to think he could like he did Margaret because from what - I didn't get to see the match against Margaret. I must tell you, through this "American Masters" series, I got to see it once. And I didn't realize how badly Margaret played. And I felt so sorry for her because we've all been there.

Every human being's been in these situations where you're not happy and you don't do well and you choke. I mean, athletes, we choke. I mean champions just choke less. She had a horrible day at the office. So I felt so bad. But so it did tee us up, though. I must say it teed us up, the women's movement, Title IX the year before, all the things that I'd been fighting for forever, equal opportunities for boys and girls. You know, it's funny because everybody talks about how this divided us. Actually, it brought everybody together. It did exactly what I wanted. It had all these parties, all these bets from people. Everybody was crazy at this time about this match.

DAVIES: Well, what I wanted to ask you was do you think Bobby Riggs really held these strong beliefs about the role of women or was this just basically shtick that he developed to get attention and money?

KING: Oh, I think he - no, I think he was chauvinistic. I think he probably went over the top for the match. But - he was a very kind person. But I think he's very - I think he was chauvinistic, but a great - but a really nice chauvinist. And he and I remained friends up until the day he died from prostate cancer.

DAVIES: Billie Jean King, recorded in 2013. Her 1973 match with Bobby Riggs is the subject of the new film "Battle Of The Sexes," starring Steve Carell and Emma stone. After a break, we'll hear King's memories of the showdown. And our jazz critic Kevin Whitehead reviews jazz pianist Harold Mabern's new album. I'm Dave Davies, and this is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF JOHN ZORN'S "THE BIG GUNDOWN")

DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Dave Davies in for Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with tennis champion Billie Jean King recorded in 2013 to mark the 40th anniversary of her 1973 Battle of the Sexes exhibition match at the Houston Astrodome with Bobby Riggs. The new film about the match starts Emma Stone as Billie Jean King and Steve Carell as the self-proclaimed male chauvinist Bobby Riggs. The showdown was viewed by an estimated 90 million people around the world.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED BROADCAST)

DAVIES: So the day of the match arrives. And Riggs enters accompanied by a bunch of young women. You enter like Cleopatra carried on a train of muscular guys. This is...

KING: Loved it.

DAVIES: ...Obviously part of the show. Yeah, you felt OK about that?

KING: Well, oh, yeah, I felt great because it's show time. And Jerry Perenchio was quite sweet behind - you know, before I came out, he said, I have this Egyptian litter, would - do you think you'd get - I know you're a feminist, you probably won't. I said, are you kidding? It's show time. This is perfect. Absolutely, I'll get up here. Let's have some fun. You know, the crowd deserves a good show. Obviously, I was about ready to die because I've got to win this match - I mean, you know, the reality of it. But I also, you know, your fans always come first. So I said, no, I'll get on there. And he about fainted. He said you will? I said yes, of course, I will. It's show time.

DAVIES: Let's hear a little bit of show time here. I want to listen to a little bit of Howard Cosell...

KING: Oh, that's pathetic.

DAVIES: ...Describing your entrance. Let's listen to this.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

HOWARD COSELL: It's like Monday night football. It's not the usual tennis atmosphere. It's a happening. And here comes Billie Jean King, a very attractive young lady. And should she ever let her hair grow down to her shoulders, took her glasses off, you'd have somebody vying for a Hollywood screen test. There she is.

DAVIES: And that's Howard Cosell reminding us it was 1973 when Billie Jean King played Bobby Riggs in the Battle of the Sexes. This whole thing, if you took your glasses off, you know, it's just sort of remarkable to hear that 40 years later.

KING: It still prevails out there. Not...

DAVIES: It's still out there.

KING: Not to the extent, but it does.

DAVIES: Well, I wanted to ask you this because, you know, as a professional and, you know, there's a business side of it, did you get people advising you to - I don't know - wear your hair in a Farrah Fawcett do and all that stuff?

KING: No.

DAVIES: No.

KING: No. I did not get any advice. I think they know better with me. I'm very practical. I actually cut my hair shorter for that match because I didn't want any perspiration around my face. I was playing 3 out of 5 sets, I'd never done that. I didn't know what to expect, so I tried to actually have a little slightly shorter haircut for that and get it shaped the way I wanted. It was shaped the way I wanted. But I basically loved my shag the most. But I felt I had to prepare for this match in a way that I had never prepared before. I never played 3 out of 5, this was one-time only, you don't get another year, next year to come back if it's a Wimbledon and try to win again. This is a one-shot deal, heavyweight championship...

DAVIES: Right.

KING: ...Match and this is it. And I told Bobby, I will never play you again. This is it for me. I could never go through this again. And this means so much to me historically. It represents social justice to me, Bobby. And I told him this before the match, and I will never play you again, this is it.

DAVIES: This is your shot. Well, were you...

KING: This is it.

DAVIES: Were you nervous when it was time to start?

KING: Actually, what happens to me is I get really nervous the farther out I am, I'm really nervous. And then I start getting into this place in my head which I do not know how I get there. You know, people say, well, how do you get there? I start just trying to feel and visualize the moment, how it's going to be and how am I going to respond. But you don't really know how it's going to be, especially this one-shot deal. The one thing I did do to prepare is I went to the Astrodome, and I looked at the top of the building. It's huge. I mean, I don't know how many hundreds of feet up it is.

I also wanted to make sure I knew the lay of the land, understand how to get around the arena because nothing is worse than going to a new place and not finding your way and you have to keep trying to talk to the guards. I met all the guards. I knew where all the elevators were. I knew where my locker room was. I knew where the car would come and let us off and where it would pick us up at the end. I mean, I go through all these logistics 'cause they're just as important if you're not used to an arena so you don't get lost or get out of sorts. You don't want to get out of sorts for those kinds of reasons. That's the last thing you want on your head. So I did spend a lot of time at the Astrodome the day before though, just to feel it.

DAVIES: Right.

KING: Because you have to remember the depth perception was going to be totally different than any tennis court I'd played on. If you look at the backgrounds where people are sitting and then watch what a real tournament looks like, where they have this blue tarp up, where it's beautiful, you can see the ball and all that. We had none of that. Look how the lines people are dressed. They're just people that used to play, you know, they played at clubs and just asked them to be a lines person.

DAVIES: You took care of him in straight sets. But as you know, there's been a - there was an ESPN story recently suggesting that based on the recollections of somebody who says he saw some - overheard some mob guys saying that Bobby Riggs may have thrown the match to retire gambling debts he had with the mob. Now, there's been a lot written disputing that. People can read that...

KING: That's a joke.

DAVIES: People can read all that stuff. Yeah. Give me your reaction to that notion.

KING: Bobby just - first of all, he would never get involved with the mafia 'cause I know Lornie Kuhle, who was his coach during the match, it was like his surrogate son, he was his sidekick. He knew Bobby as well as anybody ever in the history. He's got Bobby's museum. He is so upset. And I said - and I'm not upset. I said, don't worry, you know, people always do things like this. It's just this, you know, 40 years later, whoopee. Why didn't you do it, you know, a week later? Or why didn't you do it when it was happening? You know, and secondly, Jerry Perenchio is just - who promoted the match - is furious because he goes, it's ridiculous, you know, they're just trying to take something away from you because you beat this - you beat him. And I know when someone's tanking, believe me. As an athlete, you know when someone's not...

DAVIES: How do you know? How do you know?

KING: You just know. You can tell when they miss on purpose. You can tell. You just know. I mean, I've seen it happen. I know it, OK? You know it when you see it as an athlete. And the one thing that everyone should know is that Perenchio had told Bobby you have to win this match because here's what we're going to do for your career because Perenchio was his agent as well. He said, if you win this one - when you win it, he said to Bobby - we're going to do $1 million, winner take all. We just did - that's 100,000, the one that Bobby and I played.

But what we're going to do next is $1 million, winner take all. And let's go after Chris Evert or somebody else like Chris. We can go after Evonne Goolagong or somebody else. So they had this all mapped out for Bobby. Bobby is going to beat Billie and then we're going to go to the next one and the next one and we're going to keep raising the ante. So they had this all planned, believe me. And so Jerry Perenchio is still alive and who I visit with once in a while. He said to me that that ruined his career. So there's no way that he would've ever tried to lose that match.

DAVIES: Does it bother you that 40 years later when people hear Billie Jean King's name, they may not remember that you won 20 Wimbledon titles, but they remember the Bobby Riggs match?

KING: I knew that was going to happen actually at the time, because you could tell it was going to get the most exposure I was ever going to get in my life. Every day I leave the apartment in New York City, where I live, I know someone's probably going to bring up that match. And every day, if I'm out in public, since that match in 1973, I at least get one or more people coming up to me talking to me about it. Most people, if they're old enough to have seen it, remember exactly where they were that day. And they tell me their story. And it's very fascinating all the different stories.

DAVIES: I confess I do. I remember where I was.

KING: See. Where were you? Were you...

DAVIES: I was actually, I was in college and I missed the match because I was at a political meeting that night, believe it or not (laughter).

KING: Well, that's good. At least you were an activist. What school were you at?

DAVIES: The University of Texas.

KING: Oh, UT? OK. Were you - in Austin?

DAVIES: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

KING: Oh, wow.

DAVIES: Billie Jean King recorded in 2013. We'll hear more after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF DEEP BLUE ORGAN TRIO'S "TELL ME SOMETHING GOOD")

DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR. We're listening to my interview recorded in 2013 with Billie Jean King. Her famous match with Bobby Riggs is the subject of the new film "Battle Of The Sexes."

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED BROADCAST)

DAVIES: You know, the other thing that happens in this period is, you know, your discovery of - well, you're dealing with your sexual orientation. You were married very young. When did you realize you were gay?

KING: I was trying to figure out what I was. I didn't know if I was bisexual, gay, whatever, when I was going through this period. I had asked Larry for a divorce. And he wouldn't give me a divorce. And we didn't talk - I didn't talk to him about my feelings, though. And I really - that's how fearful and homophobic I was. So it was just - I was paralyzed. And I was just trying to figure things out. And I was starting to get worried about - I'd had this affair with Marilyn Barnett. And I was starting to worry about it. She had been my assistant. So it was a difficult time for me. And I didn't know what to do, really. I was lost. It was very different back in the '70s than it is now. It was different when I was outed in '81. It just wasn't the same as it is now.

DAVIES: You mentioned that you were outed in 1981, when the woman that you had had this relationship with, Marilyn Barnett, I guess, sought...

KING: Money, honey.

DAVIES: Yeah. Right.

KING: It's about money.

(LAUGHTER)

KING: What else is new?

DAVIES: There was a dispute over property and money and...

KING: Oh, I mean it was just ridiculous.

DAVIES: Right. And this came out in a way that was not of your choosing. And you ended up holding a news conference to kind of air it out and answer questions. And I'm wondering what kind of advice you got and why you decided to do what you did?

KING: I got the opposite advice. My lawyer, Dennis Wasser, and my publicist, Pat Kingsley, absolutely did not want me to do this. And I said, I have to do it. And they said, you can't do it. It's never been done. Dennis Wasser, my lawyer, just said no, no. We just - you don't do these. You just don't do this. You give them reasons to hurt you when it goes to, you know, it goes to court. And I said, well, I don't really care.

You know, I think the media is important to me. They've been good to me through the years, and I am definitely going to tell the truth. So please, would you do this? And they said, no. So we're up about 48 hours off and on arguing and discussing. And finally, I got them to understand that I had to do this no matter what the consequence, that I had to tell the truth. And therefore, they said, OK. And we suffered through this. It was very difficult. Larry was there. And then Larry and I started discussing life. And Larry still didn't want to get a divorce. I had all these different things going on. And of course, my poor mom and dad didn't know what hit them. Pat Kingsley had to call them to get them there quickly.

DAVIES: Yeah. How did they react to the idea of appearing in public with you then? I mean, they were at the news conference.

KING: Well, you know what? My parents - I - they showed up. And I'll always appreciate the fact that they showed up. They didn't - they were not happy. My mother was crying, my dad - we were all suffering. But my parents showed up. They didn't stay home. And I'll always appreciate the fact they stood - they got there. And I knew how hard it was for them, being so homophobic. I knew that that was the worst thing - you know, my parents never would watch my brother and me play that much in sports, they never were in the limelight, they didn't live through us, they had their own lives, very much in love. And that was - I just remember looking at them and feeling so bad for them. I felt so bad for Larry and just everybody in my life at the time. It was just a horrible, horrible feeling.

DAVIES: And you said, you know, you felt like you needed to do this for yourself - to kind of, I guess, publicly...

KING: I needed to do - you know...

DAVIES: And were you right in the end when it happened?

KING: It really got down to what my parents had actually taught Randy and me about our values. You know, thinking back and saying, well, why did I do - I had to do it. Why? You know, why? And it's very simple, actually. My mom and dad always taught us to thine own self be true, have peace of mind, you know, tell the - you know, just do the right thing, even if it's not popular. And this is one of these times. This is not going to help me be popular. If anything, it could ruin my whole career and life because I was just getting ready to retire. And I started to have long-term sponsorship deals. For the first time, like, lifetime deals. You know, in sports, that's huge when you get older. And we didn't make the big bucks. So I finally - I was really going to be able to cash in, in a way, for me, just for me to get - to finally make some really good money over the long-term.

DAVIES: Sports apparel, that kind of thing? Companies...

KING: Apparels, you know, the racket deal. I had some other things pending. I had socks. I had - what was some other things? I had some other things. I can't remember right now.

DAVIES: And then...

KING: And they, I lost them all overnight. And I had to start over, basically. And...

DAVIES: It hurt you financially.

KING: Oh, yeah. I mean, just basically start over. And then Larry and I finally got divorced. So that's another, you know, 50 percent of your net worth goes bye-bye. But that's fine. You know, I just - you just have to keep - you have to keep going. It wasn't fine at the time but...

DAVIES: Yeah.

KING: You know, and my partner, Ilana Kloss, you know, she's been - we've been together for years and years. So it was hard. It was terrible for her. You know, I really felt the most sorry as time went on for Ilana because of what she had to deal with. And we've been together - what? - 34 years. So we've been together a long time. And Ilana has been through hell with all of this.

DAVIES: Our time is short here. I wanted to talk a little bit more about tennis. I mean, what do you think of the game today, about the way women are treated, about the way it's played?

KING: I wish I could hit like they do. That's for sure.

(LAUGHTER)

KING: I think it's fantastic what's available to the women and to the men. The men still have more opportunities, but the majors are equal prize money, which I think is wonderful. That took - this is actually - Dave, this is actually the 40th year of equal prize money at the U.S. Open. And they were the first. And it took us until 2007 to have all four majors equal prize money.

DAVIES: For so long, men have played, you know, best of five sets, women best of three.

KING: Yes.

DAVIES: Does that make any sense?

KING: No, I think the men should play 2 out of 3 because we're wearing them out. The way the players play today compared to my generation is so much more strenuous, difficult, arduous on their bodies. And I think they should be playing 2 out of 3, and they will last longer. Therefore, they have more years. We get to watch them more, which is what I personally like 'cause I get very hooked into these guys like Federer and Djokovic. They're just - they're phenomenal players. I would like them to play 2 out of 3 sets because - in fact, it's proven if you win the first set in men's tennis, you win about 88 percent of the matches if you win the first set. And I think it's important to - we the women are very happy to play 3 out of 5. We have more body fat than the guys, so we're supposed to be better with endurance sports, OK? The longer you go, the better we're supposed to be. So the tournaments won't do it because it would crowd the programming too much. But I would have the men play 2 out of 3.

DAVIES: Right.

KING: And save their bodies and let them make more money over more years.

DAVIES: Makes sense, yeah. And that's - frankly, three good sets is plenty entertaining.

KING: It's plenty.

DAVIES: You know, some ballplayers when they retire find it painful to go to the ballpark and not be down there and in uniform. Did you find it hard to give up competing?

KING: I'm just the opposite.

DAVIES: Or you never did - no?

KING: I was just the opposite. When I retired at 40 from tennis and went to the World Team Tennis office the very next day, I had already planned what I was going to do in transition. I call it transition, not retiring. Tennis was not my primary. It was my secondary. It was my platform to try to help equality. So I just moved into World Team Tennis. And if you watch a World Team Tennis match, you see my philosophy on life. It's men and women on the same team, equal contributions by both gender. And when the children come out to watch, he or she sees the socialization among us. They see us working together. And we're in this world together, men and women, and we need to champion each other as humans. And it's very, very important to do this.

DAVIES: Billie Jean King, it's been great. Thanks so much for speaking with us.

KING: Thank you so much. And I love NPR. I love FRESH AIR. Thank you for all you do to inform us and teach us and so we can learn. Thanks so much.

DAVIES: Billie Jean King recorded in 2013. Her 1973 match with Bobby Riggs is the subject of the new film "Battle Of The Sexes," starring Steve Carell and Emma Stone. Coming up, jazz critic Kevin Whitehead reviews jazz pianist Harold Mabern's new album. This is FRESH AIR.

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