Nat King Cole's Shoes Are Big Shoes to Fill.

Show: FRESH AIR
Date: OCTOBER 05, 1999
Time: 12:00
Tran: 100501np.217
Type: FEATURE
Head: "Guinevere": An Interview with Director Audrey Wells
Sect: Entertainment
Time: 12:06

This is a rush transcript. This copy may not
be in its final form and may be updated.

TERRY GROSS, HOST: From WHYY in Philadelphia, I'm Terry Gross with FRESH AIR.

On today's FRESH AIR, screenwriter and director Audrey Wells talks about her new film, "Guinevere," starring Sarah Polley and Stephen Rea. Polley plays a young woman just out of college. Rea plays a freelance photographer 30 years older than she is. The film tells the story of how they become lovers and examines the needs that bring together this young woman and older man. Wells is making her directorial debut with the film. She also wrote the screenplay for "The Truth about Cats and Dogs."

And TV critic David Bianculli previews the season opener of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and the premier of its spin-off, "Angel," on the WB network tonight.

That's all coming up on FRESH AIR.

First the news.

(NEWS BREAK)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

My guest, Audrey Wells, wrote and directed the new film "Guinevere." She also wrote the screenplay for the film "The Truth about Cats and Dogs." "Guinevere" offers one answer to the question "What brings together a woman in her early 20s with a man in his early 50s?" What do they see in each other? What do they want from each other?

"Guinevere" stars Sarah Polley as Harper Sloane, a young woman who's just graduated from college. Her parents expect her to go to Harvard Law School, a direction she's unenthusiastic about. She's very insecure, and her mother's condescending treatment of her feeds that insecurity.

Stephen Rea plays a freelance photographer hired to take pictures at the wedding of Harper's sister. At the wedding, he charms her and flatters Harper. After she visits his apartment to pick up the wedding pictures, she decides not to go to law school. She returns to his place and spends the night while he works in the darkroom.

The next day they have this conversation.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP - "Guinevere")

STEPHEN REA, ACTOR: Do you want to stay here, Harper?

SARAH POLLEY, ACTRESS: Tonight?

REA: Tonight and after. For as long as you like. Unless you've other plans. I should point out there'd be conditions.

POLLEY: Like?

REA: You'd have to work.

POLLEY: You mean pay half the rent?

REA: No. I didn't say you'd have to get a job. I said you'd have to work, learn, commit yourself to study, read, create something.

POLLEY: Create something?

REA: Photograph, paint, write, dance. Doesn't matter.

POLLEY: Photograph, paint, write or dance? That's what I would have to do to stay here?

REA: That's all.

POLLEY: Couldn't I do something a little more menial, like laundry maybe?

REA: No, I don't think so, comrade. What would be the point?

POLLEY: But I've got no talent for anything. I mean, I -- I can't draw or dance. I'm terrified of cameras.

REA: I'd help.

POLLEY: Oh, you're mistaking me for someone with potential.

REA: I don't make mistakes.

POLLEY: Where would I stay?

REA: Were you comfortable last night?

POLLEY: Do you want me to stay in your darkroom at night?

REA: Not always.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GROSS: Audrey Wells, welcome to FRESH AIR.

I think your film, "Guinevere," is one of the most interesting portrayals of a relationship between an older man and a young woman that I've ever seen. The relationship in this movie is rooted on both of the characters' insecurities. He's using her in some way, and she needs him to get out of the direction her life is heading in. But they both get a lot out of the relationship and seem to genuinely care about each other.

What made you want to think through this kind of relationship in your movie?

AUDREY WELLS, DIRECTOR/SCREENWRITER: I think one thing that "Guinevere" is about is the way in which young women are mentored differently than young men are. When young men are looking for an older person to take an interest in them and open the door for them, show them into a new life and believe in their potential, that belief frequently comes at the hands of an older man who's sort of a surrogate father figure for the younger man. And usually there's nothing sexual or romantic expected there.

But so frequently, when young women find someone to mentor them, teach them, take an interest in them, it is an older man, and he does expect something sexual or romantic. And that means that a woman's road, a young woman's road to being mentored, has this additional complication, something more that she has to navigate that young men, generally speaking, don't have to deal with. And I thought that that was worth writing a movie about.

GROSS: For our listeners who haven't seen the movie, would you describe a little bit the two main characters and the relationship that they have?

WELLS: Sure. "Guinevere" is the story of a 20-year-old young woman named Harper Sloane, who's on her way to Harvard Law School. And she meets a wedding photographer, played by Stephen Rea, a guy named Cornelius Fitzpatrick or Connie. And he takes an interest in her that completely stuns and surprises her, and the kind of attention that he gives her, the faith that he has in her potential, is something that she's never experienced before from anyone or from anywhere.

And she ends up completely altering her path in life because of the relationship that she has with him. He hooks her because he believes in her. He -- there's a line early in the film, as he's trying to seduce her, in which he says "You're going to do great things." And she says, "How can you say that? Based on what?" And we, the audience, know that he's saying that based on absolutely nothing except a conscious decision to decide to believe in her potential.

And that kind of faith has such a transformative effect on her, and she needs it so desperately, that it hooks her and she's -- here she is, in the middle of a relationship that she's soon way over her head in. And the movie tells the story of this brief affair that these two people have with each other and why they're there, what kind of -- what kind of rescue operation they're performing on each other's lives and why they need each other so desperately, up until the point when one doesn't need the other anymore, and then the relationship quickly ends.

GROSS: Do you want to explain a little bit why these two characters do need each other so desperately?

WELLS: Well, I think that I was interested in writing about need in love affairs and why people get together and what they can offer each other that they get so hooked on. Sarah Polley's character, Harper Sloane, is a very insecure young woman with very low self-esteem who feels lost and unsure of herself. And what she needs that Stephen Rea's character gives her is some faith in herself, some excitement about her potential.

What he needs, which he receives from Harper, is he needs a kind of fictionalized image of himself bolstered by her faith in him. The tragedy of Stephen's character, Connie, is that he's really only good at one thing, and that is at finding, at spotting -- anywhere in a room, he can pick out the young woman with low self-esteem who will be vulnerable to his particular kind of advances.

And the interesting thing is that his advances are actually beneficial, in a sense. They -- he does good for these women. He wants to think of himself as a guy who does good, who empowers young women. And what's tragic for him is that there's a built-in irony in his situation, which is that if he succeeds in empowering a young woman, the first thing she's going to do is leave him. She'll turn right around and look at him and say, "What am I doing here? I don't need you anymore, and I'm out of here." And it happens to him again and again and again, and this is a pattern that he repeats in his life.

I think that because he's unable to excel as a man in his own terms, he -- he externalizes all of that and tries to help others instead. He can't fly, so he tries to help others fly.

GROSS: The title of your movie, "Guinevere," is not named after an actual character in the film, but when the older man meets the younger woman in this movie, he calls her Guinevere after Lady Guinevere of the fable. And I'm wondering what relationship that story has to you.

WELLS: Well, "Guinevere" is a contemporary love story, but the character, Connie -- as you just said, he does tend to call his girlfriends Guinevere. And I think for him this is a private joke. I think that he would like to think of himself as being a wonderful man, like King Arthur. And as we all know, Guinevere betrays Arthur with the young, virile, handsome knight Lancelot. So I think when Connie calls the girls in his life Guinevere, he's intimating that he knows that betrayal is imminent, and that one day these young women will leave him.

GROSS: I think you've written some really interesting, complex roles for your new movie, and you've gotten great actors to play those roles. Sarah Polley plays the young woman. She was also in "Exotica," "The Sweet Hereafter" and "Go." In "Guinevere," she has to be unformed and insecure, but still very interesting. And we have to see the potential in her.

I'm wondering if you and Sarah Polley talked about the type of vulnerability you wanted to have portrayed in this part and how to convey that vulnerability physically.

WELLS: Well, you know, it's interesting. If you cast correctly, you don't need to have half those conversations that you just mentioned there because the actor brings so much with her that a lot of that is just inherent. I never talked to Sarah about the way she should move. Sarah just moves that way. At least in this part she does. She's a brilliant actress. I knew that she understood the script when we had a very early meeting, where we had some great conversations. But we also talked about food and politics and just realized that we liked each other, which is a really important thing between an actor and a director.

Sarah has an extremely evocative face. She's very emotional, and this -- the tiny nuances -- her eyebrows, her eyelashes, the way her mouth moves, what's -- what she's thinking and how that changes the light in her eyes. She's remarkable. And to shoot a close-up of her face is incredibly rewarding for a director. She makes the unspoken moment of a scene the most important moment in that scene.

And you try and cast somebody for their essential quality because you'll never get something completely different from what is actually there and existing in that person already. So I really hand the credit over to Sarah Polley. She did what she wanted to do and needed to do in this part all by herself.

GROSS: There are some wonderful close-ups of faces in the movie, so I guess, as the director, you know, you're waiting for a kind of subtle flash of emotion to register on an actor's face.

WELLS: Well, I do love those tight close-ups. I am a big fan of Bergman movies, and I'll -- do you remember the movie "Persona" and looking at Bibi Andersson's face...

GROSS: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

WELLS: ... with Liv Ullmann and -- it's just endlessly fascinating to me. I mean, I wish that I were invisible so that I could sit three inches from people in coffee shops and look at their faces! And making movies is an opportunity to get in really close and to stay there, and that's so fascinating to me, to hold on a tight shot so that after three seconds, you see one thing, and at five seconds another, and at eight seconds the person's completely changed their mind about what they felt eight seconds before. And it's so fascinating to be in there close and to really get a look at it.

When you have actors like Stephen Rea and Sarah Polley and Jean Smart, it's -- it's a treasure trove, a tight shot. It's endlessly interesting.

GROSS: Stephen Rea plays the older man, the photographer, in your movie. And I guess he's most famous in America for "The Crying Game." Did you send him the script? Did he find out about the movie? How did you end up casting him?

WELLS: I was really interested in having Stephen play the part. He is a very charming man, and he's someone that women like. And it was important that this part not be cast with somebody who had a predator's sensibility because that would have thrown the movie off entirely. Stephen is benevolent, and Connie is benevolent, the character he plays. Once again, you want to cast for an essential quality in somebody.

So I did send him the script. And when I found out he was interested, I went to Dublin to meet with him, and we spent a couple days in pubs. And when I was finally face down on the sidewalk, he said yes to playing the part. (laughs)

GROSS: Did he tell you why?

WELLS: Well, I think that Stephen felt that it was a believable character and a good script. And actors are always looking for something meaty that they can sink their teeth into, and he certainly had a lot to play here. He's a very brave guy. He's a brave actor. And I needed a brave actor for this part because the character goes through some very humiliating things. And many actors will be too vain to want to play some of the scenes that Stephen willingly went into.

GROSS: My guest is Audrey Wells, writer and director of the new film, "Guinevere." In this scene from the film, Harper's mother, played by Jean Smart, visits Harper and her older lover for the first time. The mother is disturbed by the relationship her daughter is having with this older man and lets him know it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP - "Guinevere")

JEAN SMART, ACTRESS: For starters, I don't really think that you're young girl predilection has much to do with their firm young flesh. I mean, when someone like you is out with someone like Harper, you must invite all kinds of comparison and ridicule, which can't be much fun for either of you. Right, honey? So, then, what is a man of your age doing with my 21-year-old daughter? It'd be easy enough to say you're afraid of mature women, but that's so glib. Afraid of what, exactly?

So I kept thinking, and then it hit me. I know exactly what she has that I haven't got. Awe. That's it, isn't it. I mean, no real woman, no woman of experience, would ever stand in front of you with awe in her eyes and say, "Wow. Look at that man. Look at that Bohemian wedding photographer with holes in his jeans. Gosh, isn't he something!"

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GROSS: We'll talk more with screenwriter and director Audrey Wells after a break.

This is FRESH AIR.

(ID BREAK)

GROSS: Audrey Wells is my guest, and she wrote and directed the new film "Guinevere."

This is the first film that you directed yourself. Are there things that you knew you didn't want to happen in the casting and the direction of the film, reasons why you wanted to do it yourself and not have somebody else take over?

WELLS: Well, I think a lot of screenwriters dream about directing their own work. It's the way to go, I got to say. I had a fabulous time directing the movie, and when you hand a screenplay off to somebody else for someone else to direct it, great things can happen, terrible things can happen.

And what was wonderful about knowing I was going to direct "Guinevere" is I didn't have to -- I didn't have to indicate where all of the unspoken communication was. I knew that if I needed a reaction from an actor, if I needed a look on somebody's face that showed a transformation that I would be there to shoot that. I knew that I wouldn't miss that, I was going to shoot it.

When you hand a screenplay off to somebody else, there's no guarantee that they're going to shoot those unspoken moments. So you're much more certain that the story that you want to have told will be told because you're there to execute it.

GROSS: I guess there's no guarantee the director can even sufficiently read between the lines to know what those unspoken moments are.

WELLS: Well, not only do you have no guarantee that they'll read between the lines, but they also won't always ask you what you had intended. Many directors want to distance themselves from screenwriters because they want to own the material creatively to the exclusion of other participants. I have a real pet peeve about this, as you can probably tell!

(LAUGHTER)

WELLS: I do not believe in the auteur theory of filmmaking. I'm a screenwriter, first and foremost, and I'm not insecure about my contribution to "Guinevere." I wrote the screenplay. I wrote it alone at home, and that was the last time I was alone.

When I directed "Guinevere," I was surrounded by a hundred other people, and they were talented, and they had experience, and they were brilliant and they were generous. And every day they gave me their ideas to help me make the movie better.

So when I look at the film, I see myself up there, but I see Chuck Minsky (ph) up there -- he shot the film -- Dodie Dorren (ph) -- she edited the film -- Steve McCabe -- he production-designed the film -- Chris Beck (ph) -- he scored the film -- Linda Lowey (ph) -- she helped me cast it. And I see my actors -- Jean Smart, Gina Gershon, Stephen Rea, Sarah Polley. We made the movie together.

So I think that this idea that a director is the author of the film -- I'm very annoyed by that, and the screenwriting community -- we are trying to get directors to stop taking a possessory credit on a movie. Do you know what that is?

GROSS: Explain it.

WELLS: The possessory credit is "A film by So-and-So." And you see it on a lot of movies when they're starting, "A film by blah-blah." And blah-blah did not write the movie or act in it or build the sets or photograph it. He showed up and he directed it, and yet it's "A film by." I think that that's a destructive and very vain and very untrue credit to take on a film.

GROSS: I always figured that had to do with money, too, that part of your contract would be, like, you know, the equivalent of name above the title for the director is "A film by."

WELLS: Well, even Joe Shmoe is getting "a film by." I mean...

GROSS: Really?

WELLS: ... a movie that shows up at 2:00 o'clock in the morning on TNT that's about, you know, space aliens and...

GROSS: (laughs)

WELLS: ... you know, killer pinatas or something. That is "A film by."

GROSS: Well, speaking of credits, you know, a lot of screenplays are rewritten by people who don't necessarily get credit for the rewrite, and I think you've been in the position of being one of the rewrite people.

WELLS: I've done that many times.

GROSS: Tell us a little bit about how that works. You know, how -- what -- if you're brought in to do a rewrite, especially if it's an uncredited rewrite, what -- what are you directed to do? Does -- who's -- first of all, who's calling you in, the producer, the director?

WELLS: That kind of rewrite is called a "production rewrite," and by the time you're getting called in on the production rewrite, the movie is frequently cast. It may already be shooting, even, or at least it's going to be shooting soon. And there is a director on it already. And it's the studio, the producer, the director, or perhaps even the actor who's trying to get a rewrite on his or her part.

The way credit is determined -- a lot of people don't understand this -- it is, thank God, an arbitrary process. It's no longer who's whose best friend or who's sleeping with whom or anything like that. There's really no mystery to it.
If more than two people work on a screenplay, there's an automatic arbitration called for by the Writers Guild of America, which is our union. And all the screenplays, all the different drafts are reviewed by an anonymous arbitration committee that consists of three other writers whose names you never know. And they end up determining, based on guidelines established by the Writers Guild, how much the different writers have contributed and who should ultimately get screen credit. And that's how screen credit works.

GROSS: When you're asked to do a rewrite, are you told, "Here's where the problem is. Fix it"? How much -- how much are you told?

WELLS: Sometimes you're told "We have a problem here. Fix it." Sometimes what you hear is "We don't know what the problem is. Fix it." There are various problems. It's an interesting process.

It's fun being a production re-writer. It's completely different from doing something like "Guinevere." A production re-writer is sort of a team psychologist. You come in and hold everybody's hand, listen to everybody, try and determine what the problem is. And then you run off and write pages really fast that, hopefully, only improve the movie and don't damage the former writer's work. And you do it modestly, quickly, and then you get the hell out of Dodge before it's too late.

GROSS: Audrey Wells wrote and directed the new film "Guinevere." She'll be back in the second half of the show.

I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(BREAK)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR.

I'm Terry Gross, back with Audrey Wells. She wrote and directed the new film "Guinevere." She also wrote the screenplay for "The Truth About Cats and Dogs" and worked on several other screenplays as a script doctor.

How did you get your first job as a script doctor?

WELLS: Let's see. I think the first time I did it was on "Jumanji." I recently did it on "Runaway Bride." I did it on "Mighty Joe Young." A lot of family films that came at me after I co-wrote "George of the Jungle." So, you know, you get in kind of a groove in Hollywood too. Once I'd rewritten one monkey movie, every monkey movie was mine for the asking, you know. (laughs)

Which is one reason why I wrote "Guinevere," which contains no monkeys. I would like to make that point very clear.

GROSS: Are there monkeys in "Runaway Bride"?

WELLS: No.

GROSS: Just checking. So would this be betraying a confidence if I asked you what you were asked to change in the screenplay for "Runaway Bride"?

WELLS: No. "Runaway Bride" is the work of two writers, Sara Parriott and Josann McGibbon. They are the writers who wrote the first draft of the script, subsequent drafts, and ultimately got credit on the movie.

And I rewrote their screenplay in an attempt to deepen the character that Julia Roberts ended up playing. Before I got to that movie, it used to end when she ran away from Richard Gere's character. That was the end of the film. He chased her and she said yes, and they got married right then and there.

There was no third act, there was no -- he goes back to New York, she tries to figure out what her problem is, and then she comes to him in New York and asks him to marry her because she's understood finally that she has to have her own identity and stop trying to be a chameleon and simply assume the identities of the men that she was interested in.

So in other words, I brought to it this idea that she lost herself continually in the identity of the man that she was interested in, and that that was why she panicked on the wedding day, because she knew she'd been a fraud. And I wrote the third act of the movie, and I changed some characterizations within it. I made Richard Gere a guy who was divorced, that sort of thing.

GROSS: A little feminist insight? (laughs)

WELLS: I hope so. I would like to think so.

GROSS: Yes. Now, can I ask you who identified that there was a problem with the screenplay in the first place?

WELLS: "Runaway Bride" had been around for 10 years, and various actors had almost done it, but not quite. And at a much later date the movie became a Paramount film, and Sherry Lansing (ph), who's the president of Paramount, asked me to do a rewrite that she felt would attract a major actress. And I would say that it was at Sherry's behest and also the producer, Scott Cruve (ph).

GROSS: OK. My guest is Audrey Wells, and she wrote and directed the new film "Guinevere." She also wrote the screenplay for "The Truth About Cats and Dogs."

I want to ask you about "The Truth About Cats and Dogs." Janeane Garofalo played a radio veterinarian who does a, you know, an animal call-in show, where people call and talk about their pets. And she's about to meet a fan who knows her by her voice, and she thinks that she's not going to look as good as he imagines she looks.

So this gets into a whole thing where a friend is basically -- a really attractive friend, played by the beautiful Uma Thurman, is going to impersonate her. You used to be on the radio yourself. You did a jazz show at KJAZ (ph) in the San Francisco area. Did you feel insecure about meeting people who only knew you by your voice and didn't know what you were going to look like physically?

WELLS: Well, it's sort of a funny thing among radio people, don't you think...

GROSS: Yes! (laughs)

WELLS: ... that we are constantly shocking people with the way that we actually look? I remember when I was on the air at KJAZ, I had a little fan club at San Quentin, the prison, and they all thought that I was a gorgeous black woman, and I'm not. And other people fantasized that I was a tall gorgeous blonde, and I'm not. And it's really just the element of surprise there, you know. It's a fun thing to play with, but -- what's that old expression, You got a face for radio, baby?

(LAUGHTER)

WELLS: It's -- you know, it's -- it was just a fun idea to play with.

GROSS: Well, it was a nice way of getting into the larger concept of self-consciousness and insecurity relating to your looks.

WELLS: Well, "The Truth About Cats and Dogs" is really Edmond Rostand's "Cyrano de Bergerac" rewritten as a contemporary comedy with a female Cyrano. And Cyrano may be the only man I can think of in literary history -- well, I guess there's always "The Hunchback of Notre Dame." But anyway, my point being, men don't usually suffer that way over the fact that they're not beautiful enough to be loved.

Generally speaking, that neurotic preoccupation is feminine territory.

GROSS: Well, in "Cyrano," he has a nose like a diving board, and if it wasn't -- you know, if it wasn't for this absolutely, you know, huge nose, he wouldn't have felt so self-conscious. There's something, like, remarkably unusual about him.

WELLS: That's right, whereas women only have to be five pounds overweight...

GROSS: Exactly.

WELLS: ... and they're in Cyrano territory.

GROSS: (laughs) Exactly. But I think it's interesting that you're bringing these ideas to movies, because so many movies just accept all the kind of standard notions of beauty and cast according to those, and, you know, they just perpetuate all of that. Did you consciously want to take on the idea of challenging certain standards of beauty or the necessity to feel like you have to measure up to them?

WELLS: Yes, in "The Truth About Cats and Dogs," I very much wanted to write a movie that I thought would be supportive to young women. I'm essentially a social and political person. It surprises me that I now work in fiction, and that I'm a filmmaker. I thought I was going to be a journalist. And -- or just a political activist.

And I feel that movies are a drop in the bucket in terms of what an individual absorbs from the entire world. But if you're going to create that drop in the bucket, you might as well try and do something that has a positive impact. I wanted to write a movie that would be supportive to girls and young women who were trying to have a better sense of self and see themselves in a different light, and not only judge themselves according to the representations of female beauty that they see on the cover of magazines, that kind of thing.

And to that extent, I think that the movie was very successful. I know a lot of little girls who really liked "The Truth About Cats and Dogs." That makes me very happy, because I think it gives them an idea of how they can end up as really attractive and desirable women in ways that don't relate only to their physical appeal.

GROSS: So many actresses rightfully complain that there just aren't a lot of really good roles, particularly for women who are, say, past 35. I'm wondering if you feel any responsibility in that area to write good roles for women.

WELLS: I do, I absolutely do. And I frequently think about the great actresses who are over 40 and what kind of stories I might be able to come up with for them.

The thing is that one gravitates in fiction naturally to write about people who are in crisis or who are in motion. And in terms of our development, just human development in life, a lot of stuff happens to you in your 20s. You start to settle in your 30s and frequently are settled in your 40s. So there's something about where drama naturally wants to go that has a greater emphasis on the young to some extent.

But whatever age range you're dealing with, you need something big to happen to your character. So that's always where you start from, whether you're writing for men or women. What happens here? What can I do that's interesting here? What kind of crisis can I put this person in? That's where you start from.

And certainly there's hundreds of amazing stories to be told with female protagonists over 40, and there's no reason why those shouldn't be just as interesting as anything else.

GROSS: My guest is screenwriter and director Audrey Wells. Her new film is "Guinevere." We'll talk more after a break.

This is FRESH AIR.

(BREAK)

GROSS: My guest is screenwriter and director Audrey Wells. Her new film is "Guinevere."

I read a story about how you got your job as a jazz disk jockey. The story I read was basically, you faked your way in. Would you tell how you got the job?

WELLS: Yes. This was back in the early '80s, and there's a radio station that's no longer on the air, but it was a really great jazz station called KJAZ in San Francisco. And I really wanted to work there, because it was a noncorporate station, and there was a chance that they would hire beginners.

And I actually didn't know anything about jazz, and the owner of the station was a guy who only cared about how much I knew about the music. He didn't care if I had on-air experience.

And so he set me loose in the record library and told me to pick out the 100 greatest jazz tunes ever composed. And all I did was look for the records that were the most dog-eared, the ones that the DJs had obviously reached for more than the others, and looked for the tunes that they had circled. And I made my list based on that, and faked him out, and he gave me a job.

GROSS: So but then you had to be in the position of actually faking it on the air during your shift, which I imagine would be pretty difficult. So I was wondering, it takes a lot of chutzpah to do that. What was it like being on the air in the beginning when you really didn't know what you were talking about?

WELLS: Oh, it was truly horrifying. These are the kinds of things you can only do when you're in your early 20s, because if you wait too long, if you get older, you won't be willing to make such an idiot out of yourself in public.

But I truly think that a willingness to make an idiot out of yourself in public is part and parcel with becoming an artistic person, so I highly recommend it to everybody out there.

GROSS: So what are some of the mistakes you made on the air?

WELLS: Oh, my God. I called Gene Krupa Gene KRUP-pa. I remember mistaking the gender of different artists if they had androgynous first names, that sort of thing.

GROSS: OK.

WELLS: Terrible.

GROSS: Do you still listen to a lot of jazz? And John Pizzarelli (ph) does the opening song in your new movie. It opens with him singing "Little Coquette." I like that.

WELLS: Yes, I am still very much a jazz fan, and I would say that there's a lot of Thelonious Monk on the "Guinevere" sound track. And I don't know if you remember that Monk wrote a tune called "Ugly Beauty," but that idea, that something that was ungainly and awkward could also be really beautiful was an aesthetic that had a lot of impact on me when I was younger and I first became acquainted with his music.

And I think that that ugly beauty, that awkwardness, is something that the characters have in "Guinevere," and that Monk's music expresses something spiritual about my main characters. So there's a lot of it in the movie.

GROSS: Well, you know, we heard the story of how you faked your way into a job on the radio. How did you break into screenwriting?

WELLS: Yes, that I couldn't fake, had to actually write a screenplay. Well, a very good friend of mine, Diane Kaplan (ph), who made radio history by revamping the Alaska Pullett (ph) Broadcasting Network, I met her at the college station at UC-Berkeley, and she ended up going up to Alaska and then bringing me up to do some training sessions at bush radio stations with indigenous Alaskans. And so I was flying to Barrow and Kotzebue and Bethel and McGrath.

And I simultaneously was going to film school, and I was supporting myself by doing radio workshops at native and bush radio stations. I ended up writing a screenplay about this experience called "Radio Free Alaska," and I sold that to Paramount, and that was the beginning of my screenwriting career.

GROSS: Ah, great story. So your next movie, I understand, is about the Golden Gate Bridge, the men who built the bridge?

WELLS: Yes, I'm writing that for the director Ron Howard, who did "Apollo 13" and "Ed TV" and a lot of other great movies. And I'm writing it with Will Richter (ph). I'm writing for the first time with a partner. And it's a fantastic project, the story of the building of the Golden Gate Bridge is a great story.

And we are revolving it around a fictional trio at the center of it, and I've got high hopes for it.

GROSS: You grew up right near the Golden Gate Bridge. You grew up in Sausalito, which is right over the bridge.

WELLS: Right. And I lived in the city and I went to UC-Berkeley and got my B.A. there. I'm a real Bay Area gal. I only live in L.A. because I gotta.

GROSS: So did you love the bridge when you were growing up?

WELLS: I do love the bridge, and I love the idea of the anonymous people that built that bridge, the people now dead whose names we don't know who knew -- must have known that they were part of something great, and that they were creating history when they went to work every day. I'm fascinated by who those men were and what they were thinking.

GROSS: Do you know who'll direct the movie?

WELLS: I hope it'll be Ron Howard.

GROSS: But not yourself.

WELLS: No, they don't let girls like me near the $100 million budget movies. (laughs)

GROSS: Audrey Wells, I want to thank you a lot for talking with us.

WELLS: It's a pleasure, thanks for having me.

GROSS: Audrey Wells wrote and directed the new film "Guinevere" starring Sarah Polley and Stephen Rea.

TO PURCHASE AN AUDIOTAPE OF THIS PIECE, PLEASE CALL 877-21FRESH
Dateline: Terry Gross, Philadelphia, PA
Guest: Audrey Wells
High: Screenwriter Audrey Wells is making her directorial debut with the new film "Guinevere" starring Stephen Rea and Sarah Polley, a film about a mentor relationship between an older man and a young woman, and the needs and insecurities that compel them.
Spec: Movie Industry; Entertainment; Audrey Wells; "Guinevere"

Please note, this is not the final feed of record

Copy: Content and programming copyright 1999 WHYY, Inc. All rights reserved. Transcribed by FDCH, Inc. under license from WHYY, Inc. Formatting copyright 1999 FDCH, Inc. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to WHYY, Inc. This transcript may not be reproduced in whole or in part without prior written permission.
End-Story: "Guinevere": An Interview with Director Audrey Wells

Show: FRESH AIR
Date: OCTOBER 05, 1999
Time: 12:00
Tran: 100502NP.217
Type: FEATURE
Head: Reviewing the "Vampire Slayer" Shows
Sect: Entertainment
Time: 12:49

This is a rush transcript. This copy may not
be in its final form and may be updated.

Tonight on the WB Network, a new series called "Angel" premieres. It's a spinoff of the existing series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer. TV critic David Bianculli has a review.

DAVID BIANCULLI, TV CRITIC: The only thing I don't like about "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is its title. Yes, it strikes just the right note of comedy, teen Valley Girl becomes entrusted with saving the human race from the undead, but that same title keeps a lot of people from taking it seriously and from tuning in to watch it.

But "Buffy" is starting its fourth season tonight, and I haven't missed an episode yet. When it comes to exploring and explaining the private lives and thoughts of teenagers, it's better than any other show on the air, better than "Dawson's Creek," better than "Felicity," and better than anything since "My So-Called Life." The only difference is, it also has vampires and other demons.

Joss Wieden (ph), who created both "Buffy" and its new spinoff, "Angel," knows exactly what he's doing. He's using the supernatural as a metaphor for everyday life and fears. Buffy, after a two-year relationship with her boyfriend, Angel, decided to make love to him and sacrifice her virginity. Right after she did, he became a monster and mistreated her horribly.

Yes, it was because he was a vampire with a Gypsy curse, but the feelings of vulnerability and betrayal to anyone that age are universal.

This year, Buffy, played beautifully by Sarah Michelle Geller (ph), is starting college, just like Felicity on another WB show did a year ago. Buffy has the typical freshman problems her first day, can't find her classes, hates her new roommate, is humiliated by a nasty teacher.

Then at night when she faces her first campus vampire, things don't get any better. It's a strong fourth season opener, setting up Buffy in a new environment. The spinoff show that follows, "Angel," does the same thing. David Borianas (ph), playing the vampire who loved and left Buffy, relocates to Los Angeles, where he comes home to his basement apartment to find someone waiting there. He's Bosley (ph), played by Glen Quinn (ph), and he's a fellow good guy demon. He also conveniently recounts Angel's long, tortured, complicated story.

(AUDIO CLIP, "ANGEL")

GLEN QUINN, ACTOR: Well, I come in uninvited, so you know I'm not a vampire like yourself.

DAVID BORIANAS, ACTOR: What do you want?

QUINN: I've been sent by the powers that be.

BORIANAS: The powers that be what?

QUINN: Let me tell you a little bedtime story.

BORIANAS: But I'm not sleepy.

QUINN: Once upon a time, there was a vampire. And he was the meanest vampire in all the land. I mean, other vampires were afraid of him, he was such a bastard. Then one day he's cursed by Gypsies. They restore his human soul, and all of a sudden he's mad with guilt. You know, What have I done? Oy, vay. You know, he's freaked.

BORIANAS: OK, I'm sleepy.

QUINN: Well, it's a fairly dull take. It needs a little sex, is my feeling. So sure enough, enter the girl. Pretty little blonde thing, vampire slayer by trade. And our vampire falls madly in love with her. But eventually the two of them, well, they get fleshy with one another. And the moment he -- well, I guess the technical term is perfect happiness. But when our boy gets there, he goes bad again. He kills again.

It's ugly. So when he gets his soul back for the second time, he figures, hey, he can't be anywhere near young Miss Poppy Ties (ph) without endangering them both. So what does he do? He takes off, goes to L.A.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BIANCULLI: So that's it. If that sounds too silly for you, there's probably nothing I can say to persuade you to watch. But if the dialogue and tone sounded interesting, then "Buffy" and "Angel" just might be for you.

Believe me or not, these are two of the better and more intelligent shows on the air right now.

GROSS: David Bianculli is TV critic for "The New York Daily News."

Coming up, jazz critic Kevin Whitehead on Diana Krall (ph) and Nat Cole.

This is FRESH AIR.

(BREAK)

TO PURCHASE AN AUDIOTAPE OF THIS PIECE, PLEASE CALL 877-21FRESH
Dateline: Terry Gross, Philadelphia, PA
Guest: David Bianculli
High: TV critic David Bianculli reviews the season opener of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and the premiere of its spin-off "Angel" on the WB network.
Spec: Entertainment; Television And Radio; "Buffy The Vampire Slayer"; "Angel"

Please note, this is not the final feed of record

Copy: Content and programming copyright 1999 WHYY, Inc. All rights reserved. Transcribed by FDCH, Inc. under license from WHYY, Inc. Formatting copyright 1999 FDCH, Inc. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to WHYY, Inc. This transcript may not be reproduced in whole or in part without prior written permission.
End-Story: Reviewing the "Vampire Slayer" Shows

Show: FRESH AIR
Date: OCTOBER 06, 1999
Time: 12:00
Tran: 100503NP.217
Type: FEATURE
Head: Diana Krall: A Review
Sect: Entertainment
Time: 12:54

This is a rush transcript. This copy may not
be in its final form and may be updated.

GROSS: This year's breakout jazz star is Diana Krall, whose new CD is selling briskly and who was a hit at festivals this summer. As a jazz pianist who's crossed over into the adult pop market as a romantic vocalist, Krall has been inspired by and sometimes been compared to Nat King Cole.

Jazz critic Kevin Whitehead says that speaks to her good taste, but that Cole's shoes are big shoes to fill.

(AUDIO CLIP, SONG EXCERPT, DIANA KRALL)

KEVIN WHITEHEAD, JAZZ CRITIC: Diana Krall, with a tip of the hat to Nat King Cole's version of "The Christmas Song." Krall's not bad, but she's still young and still learning. She has a warm vocal quality, but her pitch can wander a little, and the way she cracks her voice to emphasize a word reminds me of how the Spice Girls crinkle their noses in closeup.

On much of Krall's current album, "When I Look in Your Eyes," arranger Johnny Mandell (ph) lays on the lush movie strings, and she aims for the come-hither delivery and drowsy tempos that made Julie London the sexist thing to hit cocktail music. But Krall sounds like she's faking the heavy breathing.

Happily, the rest of her album is swinging small group tunes indebted to Nat Cole's combos, with synchronized piano, guitar, and bass.

(AUDIO CLIP, SONG EXCERPT, DIANA KRALL)

WHITEHEAD: As a piano player, Diana Krall's OK. That's one of her more meaty solos. And we don't blame her for the monster push she got this summer from the folks at Verve, a Universal Music Company. Hers is a classic case of modern jazz economics.

As more big labels merge and whittle down their new artist rosters, there's more pressure for every CD to be a hit, hence the corporate hype and lavish comparisons between young artists and the greats of yore.

But to invite such comparisons, as Krall does with Nat Cole, is to step into a trap, and here's why. To make up for fewer new releases, big record companies are reissuing more and more old sessions they already own, so new artists have to compete in the marketplace with the same giants who inspired them.

But when you listen to the newcomer and the old master side by side, suddenly everything's in perspective.

(AUDIO CLIP, SONG EXCERPT, NAT KING COLE)

WHITEHEAD: Nat King Cole, 1956, from "After Midnight: The Complete Session," which came out just after Diana Krall's CD. "After Midnight" is well known to Cole's fans as his jazziest album of the '50s. Four guests sit in with Nat's combo, alto saxophonist Willie Smith, violinist Stuff Smith, trombonist Juan Tizole (ph), or trumpeter Sweets Edison.

This edition includes one alternate take and five new pieces, like the one we just heard. They're as good as the stuff originally issued, which included remakes of a few Cole classics.

(AUDIO CLIP, EXCERPT, "SWEET LORRAINE," NAT KING COLE)

WHITEHEAD: Nat Cole on "Sweet Lorraine." When it comes to sounding relaxed and engaged at the same time, as singer or pianist, he's the king. Cole was a great pop singer because he applied what he learned in jazz about nuances of timing and inflection and about effective understatement. Even so, Cole in 1956 sang rather better than his younger self. Ripening takes time.

So we don't condemn an emerging artist like Diana Krall for falling short of a grand master in his prime. Enough to observe her progress for now, and wish her the kind of success Nat Cole had, making good music in a commercial world.

GROSS: Kevin Whitehead is the author of "New Dutch Swing."

FRESH AIR's interviews and reviews are produced by Naomi Person (ph), Phyllis Meyers (ph), and Amy Sallett (ph), with Monique Nazareth, Ann Marie Boldanado, and Patty Leswing (ph). Research assistance from Sarah Scherr (ph) and Helen Wang (ph).

I'm Terry Gross.

(AUDIO CLIP, SONG EXCERPT, DIANA KRALL)

TO PURCHASE AN AUDIOTAPE OF THIS PIECE, PLEASE CALL 877-21FRESH
Dateline: Terry Gross, Philadelphia, PA
Guest: Kevin Whitehead
High: Jazz critic Kevin Whitehead reviews Diana Krall's new CD, "When I Look In Your Eyes."
Spec: Music Industry; Diana Krall; "When I Look In Your Eyes"

Please note, this is not the final feed of record

Copy: Content and programming copyright 1999 WHYY, Inc. All rights reserved. Transcribed by FDCH, Inc. under license from WHYY, Inc. Formatting copyright 1999 FDCH, Inc. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to WHYY, Inc. This transcript may not be reproduced in whole or in part without prior written permission.
End-Story: Diana Krall: A Review
Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.