Political Satirist Bill Maher

DATE August 3, 2004 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Bill Maher discusses the current political season
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

My guest is one of America's most outspoken and controversial political
satirists, Bill Maher. His HBO series "Real Time" started its new season last
Friday, just in time to weigh in on the Democratic convention. "Real Time"
usually starts with a sketch or song parody. Then Maher talks about the
issues of the day with a panel of guests from the worlds of politics, policy,
punditry and entertainment.

Maher started his HBO series after the demise of his ABC series "Politically
Incorrect." One of Maher's guests on Friday was Michael Moore. They both
voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, but this time they're voting for Kerry and
trying to convince Nader to withdraw from the ballot. Nader joined them
briefly on Friday's show and defended his campaign. Here's a clip from the
show.

(Soundbite of "Real Time with Bill Maher")

Mr. RALPH NADER: The important thing here, Bill, is this.

Mr. BILL MAHER: All right.

Mr. NADER: The conservatives and liberal publics are furious with Bush over
the deficit, over the subsidies to corporations from their tax dollars, over
the Patriot Act big government, over the sovereignty threatening WTO and
NAFTA. Who's talking to them? You know, the Democrats are so arrogant. Just
because tens of millions of...

Mr. MAHER: Arro...

Mr. NADER: Wait, wait. Just because tens of millions of voters in this
country, working people, are against abortion and against gun control, that
means they write them off completely. This is ridiculous.

Mr. MAHER: OK.

Mr. NADER: We are the underdog candidacy.

Mr. MAHER: Look, obviously we are not convincing you with any of our words.
So I'm just going to say because...

Mr. MICHAEL MOORE: Yeah.

Mr. MAHER: ...of all your great service and because we do really love you,
but we disagree with you on this, Michael and I are going to get down on our
knees and beg you not to run.

(Soundbite of laughter and applause)

Mr. MAHER: Please. Please. Please. Please. Don't run.

Mr. MOORE: Ralph! Please, Ralph! Ralph!

Mr. MAHER: It proves you're a great American. Don't run.

GROSS: That's an excerpt of Friday night's edition of "Real Time with Bill
Maher."

Bill Maher, welcome to FRESH AIR.

Mr. MAHER: Thank you.

GROSS: How did you and Michael Moore decide to get down on your knees and beg
Ralph Nader not to run?

Mr. MAHER: I just said to Mike before the show--you know, neither one of us
is above begging.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. MAHER: And, you know, I said, `Mike, come on. You're not above begging.
You're married.' Joking, of course.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. MAHER: But I said, you know, `It's the least we could do for our
country. We both feel very strongly about this. We've tried everything else.
Everybody has tried everything else. At very least, even if he doesn't
withdraw from the race, we'll know that we gave it our full measure to try to
affect this election.' And, you know, having done that, I think I can at
least walk through the voting booth on November 2nd with a clear conscience
knowing I tried.

GROSS: Now I'd say that the look on his face was a combination of surprise,
shock and terror (laughs). How did you read it?

Mr. MAHER: Well, just to get any look on Ralph Nader's face is good.

GROSS: (Laughs)

Mr. MAHER: I think he was a little--I think he was OK with that. He was a
little more miffed when I gave him the picture of O.J. Simpson and said, `This
is to remind you that a person can be considered a hero his whole life and
then wreck it because of one little thing.'

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: Now let's see how effective your entreaty was. Ralph Nader has since
said that the Democratic convention made John Kerry sound more like President
Bush than ever, and that justifies his staying in the race. And he called the
Democrats a decadent party. So I guess goal number one of getting him...

Mr. MAHER: True.

GROSS: ...to withdraw was not fulfilled.

Mr. MAHER: No. But I think we did achieve something, I thought, that was
pretty interesting that could be a wedge on this issue in the future. I asked
Ralph--I said, `OK, we get it that you don't think that Bush is different
enough from John Kerry. What about if he was running against David Duke,
former Klansman, someone who's been in the political realm?' And Ralph said,
`No, in that case I would vote for John Kerry.' So, in other words, it is a
matter of degree. Ralph Nader can be moved. He does understand the concept
of the lesser of two evils. Apparently, President Bush is just not quite evil
enough.

GROSS: So to recap, 2000 you voted for Nader; 2004 you're urging people to
not vote for Nader; you're urging Nader to withdraw from the ballot. What
impact do you think he's going to actually have on the election this time
around?

Mr. MAHER: I wish I could answer that. I had been saying, and because I
believed it to be true, of course, that he wouldn't have that big an effect on
the election because I think it's an erroneous assumption people make that a
third-party candidate is always going to take votes away from somebody. And
the analogy I used was television. Very often they'll throw against a very
popular television show a new show, and it won't be that the old show loses an
audience; it's just that the new show brings in a whole new audience, you
know? "CSI" still gets its 20 million, but `How to Marry a Midget,' you know,
just brings in the midget--whatever. And I thought maybe that's the truth
with Ralph. And I think that is somewhat the truth with Ralph.

But then you look at the polls. Now Ralph, of course, is saying that the
polls don't mean anything, but that's always what politicians say when they're
behind in the polls. But it's not worth the risk. So my guess is still that
the people who are voting for Nader wouldn't be voting anyway. But even if he
just takes, you know, a few hundred, we saw from the last time that's enough
to tip the election. So for those of us who think that the stewardship of the
current president has not been effective, we just wish Ralph would play it
safe and leave the election a little more pristine this time.

GROSS: Bill Maher is my guest. And his HBO series "Real Time with Bill
Maher" resumed last Friday night and continues through the election.

Because of the new terror alert against financial institutions in New York,
New Jersey and Washington, we're seeing pictures now of police with automatic
weapons in the street. And, of course, if you live in New York, you're
actually seeing the police with the automatic weapons; you're not just seeing
the photos. What's your reaction to seeing that?

Mr. MAHER: If I lived in New York, I'd be somewhat assured. At least they're
on the case. I mean, if there's a problem, let's deal with it. Let's have
the cops with the automatic weapons or whatever it takes in the street.
Better to deal with the problem as it is than to pretend there isn't a
problem.

GROSS: Have you asked yourself if you worked, say, for Citibank if you'd be
showing up for work?

Mr. MAHER: (Laughs) If I worked for Citibank, I'd never be showing up for
work.

GROSS: (Laughs)

Mr. MAHER: It would have nothing to do with terrorism.

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: But, seriously, say you worked in one of those places or right next
door to one of the places that is a likely target, do you think you'd go to
work?

Mr. MAHER: I think I would. I mean, I think that's the least I can do. I
was born at a time when the Vietnam War--I wasn't born then, but I came of
age, shall we say, just as the Vietnam War was ending. So there was never any
moment in my life when I had to consider, `Oh, should I join up and go fight
the war?'--because I think I was 17 in '73 when they stopped the draft and
started to pull the troops home. So I got real lucky with that. So I would
think the least I could do for my country in the way of showing courage is to
show up for work. And I think once they're on to a situation to this degree,
it would be very hard for the terrorists to pull this off. I mean, they got
us good on September 11th and they could get us again, but in a situation like
this where they have what seems like specific intel, I would put my lot in
with the good guys.

GROSS: Now I know you're voting for Kerry and you're not voting for Nader
this time. Do you consider yourself, like, pro-Kerry or just anti-Bush?

Mr. MAHER: Well, I think John Kerry is a fine candidate. There's
nothing--people's expectations of a presidential candidate are so silly at
this point. I think the Kerry campaign is a good test of our maturity.
Because the knocks on Kerry, besides the flip-flopper issue, which we got into
our show Friday and I could address here if you'd want me to--but outside of
that, it just seems like all the knocks on him are that he's not exciting
enough, he's not charismatic enough. And these are not qualities that we
should even care about in a president.

I don't think if Abraham Lincoln was running today he'd be particularly
good-looking, charismatic. I don't know if he told a great joke. I don't
know if he would strike the people as President Bush does, as someone who
you'd want to have over for dinner. But that's not what's important. What's
important is that the man is a capable leader of the Free World. And John
Kerry is a very serious guy. I like that quality in him that he's serious. I
don't care if he's funny or likeable or witty or any of that.

GROSS: Do you feel that that's your job and not his job?

Mr. MAHER: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's a nice added quality in a president.
It was wonderful that, you know, John Kennedy spoiled all of us for presidents
in the future because he was so charismatic and handsome and witty. But you
know what? That was a fluke. Get over it. And it's probably never going to
happen again that way. So we should stop electing the president like he's
winning "American Idol" and elect him and choose him for the qualities that
are necessary in this dangerous world, which is primarily wisdom and courage.

GROSS: Do you think that there's too much emphasis on his military record,
you know, in the sense that do you feel like in future elections the military
record of the candidates will be important, or do you think that there's
something special about this election and his record?

Mr. MAHER: I think military service is always extremely important and
special. I voted for Dole in '96 because I thought, `Well, you know what?
He's going to lose anyway.' And I felt a special attachment because my
parents were both in World War II for that generation that fought that war.
And I thought, `This is the last chance I'm going to have to vote for a World
War II veteran.' And I just think all things being equal--I've said this
before--that all things being equal in two candidates, I think just on past
service you give it to the guy who went to war for his country. That's the
biggest by far sacrifice that anybody could ever make for their country.

And, obviously, there are situations where one candidate has been to war, and
he's just not good at politics. You don't elect that guy. But that's not the
case with John Kerry. And, also, we are in a war, and if we are going to
need, quote, "a wartime president," then I want a president who's been to war.
I think that makes a huge difference in how a president acts. I think when a
president has seen war and been to war, he is much less likely to involve his
country in a war. And I also think the level of naivety that our current
president displays in matters of foreign affairs is something that a veteran
would never have because a veteran has been overseas, a veteran has seen what
it's like to conquer a country.

Any Vietnam vet knows that one of our biggest problems in Vietnam was that we
just didn't understand the people and the culture that we were dealing with.
And we're doing the same thing in Iraq. I think if you asked the average
Iraqi man on the street, `Would you rather have Saddam Hussein back in power
or have your sister walk down this street in a miniskirt?' I think they would
overwhelmingly say, `I'd rather have Saddam Hussein back in power.' And I
don't think President Bush gets that.

GROSS: My guest is political satirist Bill Maher. His HBO series "Real Time"
started its new season last Friday. We'll talk more after a break. This is
FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: Bill Maher is my guest. And his HBO Friday-night series "Real Time
with Bill Maher" just resumed this past Friday, and it will continue through
the election and then go on a break again.

After the Democratic convention, you said that you were exhausted by the
optimism. What...

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. MAHER: Yes, exactly.

GROSS: ...did you find too much about the optimism at the convention?

Mr. MAHER: That it was never-ending; that they shoved it down our throat from
the first minute to the last; that it's childish even to presume that optimism
is for some reason the most important quality in a candidate. I tried to make
the point on the show Friday that pessimism is actually good and that the US
Constitution is a very pessimistic document. That's why it has all those
checks and balances, because they didn't trust each other and they certainly
didn't trust what they would have called the howling masses. It was all about
making sure that human nature was checked. And there's something wrong with
optimism to a degree, but I'd rather have realism. You know, I feel almost
like there's a committee waiting, `Are you now or have you ever been a
pessimist?'

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: So what networks did you watch for the convention?

Mr. MAHER: I switched around. I mean, the broadcast networks didn't really
put it on, so I was watching probably CNN and MSNBC.

GROSS: Not FOX, not C-SPAN.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. MAHER: No, not C-SPAN. I'm not sure where C-SPAN is in my satellite
package. I may have saved a few dollars and didn't get C-SPAN. That's right,
I got Cinemax instead. But the other networks, even the cable networks,
didn't show the full convention. And I was insulted on behalf of the Reverend
Al Sharpton the way MSNBC--I don't know if CNN may have done the same
thing--no, they didn't because I think I saw it there. I saw the whole speech
on CNN. But MSNBC definitely cut him off. He was building to this incredible
moment. It was literally the only political speech that has ever brought me
to tears. And the next day I found out that right in the middle of it, as
he's going, you know, for the home run swing at the end of his speech,
MSNBC--`All right. We're watching the Reverend Al Sharpton, and I have to
say this man started out his career with a lie.' And, you know, it's like the
unbelievable narcissism of the media. In other words, you're watching me and
I'm watching him, but what's important is that you're watching me. So you're
right, I should have been watching C-SPAN.

GROSS: You wrote a very funny editorial about this for the LA Times and also
talked about it on your show. What'd you say? That the conventions were just
taking away the time from the networks' real goal in life, which is covering
the Laci Peterson trial?

Mr. MAHER: Yes, right. Yes, I took the position--I guess it's a contrary
one--that the conventions are actually important and that they deserve to be
not just broadcast but viewed in their entirety. It's one of the few times
during the election cycle when the race is not reduced to just soundbites and
attack ads. Now conventions aren't perfect, but at least it's a way that the
major figures in a party can speak in an uninterrupted fashion, in a serious
fashion, and people can hear what they have to say. And the parties are
different this year. They do have different platforms and visions of America.

So is it so awful for Americans to take a few nights out of their year to look
at the party and then the other party, see who they consider their important
faces, see what they consider their important themes and hear what their
vision is for their country, for your country? It is your country. As
opposed to what? Watching some awful reruns that the networks are burning off
during the summer?

GROSS: Bill, what'd you think of the music at the Democratic convention?

Mr. MAHER: Well, I'm a big Chaka Khan fan, so, you know, I'm a Republican
Party convention music fan because they always have, I think, a lot more
soulful music because they're attempting to persuade people that there are
more than five black people in the Republican Party. So they've always got a
great R&B lineup. The Democrats, of course, are trying to appeal to the
heartland, so they try to put on people who are, you know, quite frankly, a
little too white-bred for my taste.

GROSS: What are you looking forward to, what are your expectations of the
Republican convention?

Mr. MAHER: Well, I think the Republican convention has a lot of work to do to
accomplish its goal, which is to once again fool the American people into
thinking that it's a party of moderates. That's why they're putting up people
like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Rudy Giuliani, who are not really emblematic of
that party. Now the Republican Party always likes to say it has a big tent,
but whenever I've been under that big tent, the people serving the hors
d'oeuvres were always black and brown.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. MAHER: I'm just saying--but at their conventions, Schwarzenegger, you
know, Giuliani, all their--you know, the few people who they have in their
party who are a little more sensible about social issues, they seem to have a
prominent role. You seem to see an awful lot of ethnic faces. And, you know,
President Bush ran in 2000 as a compassionate conservative and as a moderate.
And now, after four years, obviously he can't hide the record that he didn't
govern that way. So it's a much taller order this time trying to convince
people. But, of course, as I've said before, the genius of our marketing
combined with the stupidity of our people is the true axis of evil.

GROSS: (Laughs) I want to ask you a language question. Now you're on HBO
where you can say anything and...

Mr. MAHER: And do.

GROSS: ...and do. Two big language controversies in politics recently:
Teresa Heinz Kerry told a reporter to shove it, and Vice President Dick Cheney
told--Was it a congressman or a senator?

Mr. MAHER: Pat Leahy...

GROSS: That's right...

Mr. MAHER: ...senator of Vermont.

GROSS: ...it was Senator Pat Leahy. And Vice President Cheney told him to
blank himself.

Mr. MAHER: Yeah, go ahead. I want to hear this. I want to hear you say it.

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: Some other time. So did the fact that Vice President Cheney used the
expletive and told Pat Leahy to...

Mr. MAHER: Yeah.

GROSS: ...blank himself or that Teresa Heinz told a reporter to shove it
register on you in any way?

Mr. MAHER: It certainly doesn't bother me. I think you have to look a little
bit deeper than those two comments. First of all just by virtue of the fact
that you can quote Teresa Heinz Kerry's comment and you can't quote the vice
president's should tell you that there's a little difference in who's the
meaner. Also, to tell a reporter, who, in her view--I haven't really looked
into it, but apparently in her view anyway he made stuff up about her, I mean,
come on. What's the big deal about telling a reporter to shove it if they
lied about you? That's the least you can do. That's a lot different than
talking in a much more tawdry way to a US senator. This wasn't some low-life
reporter working for that Richard Mellon Scaife scoundrel. This was Senator
Pat Leahy and on the Senate floor, I understand, which has always been a place
of courtesy. And it's pretty funny because this is the crowd that was going
to come into office and restore civility, remember, and honor and integrity
and all that kind of stuff.

I mean, having said that, it's about the thousandth thing on my list to have
against Dick Cheney. I mean, I could think of so many other things that he
has done while in office that bother me more. But it just, I think, is very
indicative of the nature of these people.

GROSS: Bill Maher. His HBO series "Real Time" started its new season last
Friday and continues Friday nights through the election. He'll be back in the
second half of the show. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

(Announcements)

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: Coming up, Hollywood and politics. We continue our conversation with
satirist Bill Maher, who lives in LA. And we talk with satirist Colin Quinn,
who's in New York City.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross back with political satirist Bill
Maher. His HBO series, "Real Time with Bill Maher," started its new season
last Friday.

Bill Maher, you live in Los Angeles, so, you know, you're in the Hollywood
area. Hollywood has been called by many conservatives, you know, a kind of
elite liberal bastion. Of course, Governor Schwarzenegger...

Mr. MAHER: That's what I like about it.

GROSS: (Laughs) So as a comic and satirist who lives in Los Angeles, has
their own TV show, you know, is voting for Kerry, you know, doesn't like Bush,
what are your impressions of Hollywood as a liberal bastion? Do you think
that that's true? Do you think that you are typical?

Mr. MAHER: Well, Hollywood is a liberal bastion only on the surface. They are
truly limousine liberals. The people who are giving money to the candidates
and so forth, they're rich, OK? And rich people tend to be conservative. And
they are a lot more conservative here in many ways than you would think. Yes,
they, of course, are liberal on social issues. They want abortion to remain
legal. They want to be able to have gay marriages and stuff like that. But
rich people, really, also would like the stock market to be stable. And even
though they cry a lot about how President Bush gave a tax cut to the rich, you
know, somehow, I think, secretly they're kind of happy he did that.

GROSS: So you don't think Hollywood's as liberal as advertised?

Mr. MAHER: No, I don't.

GROSS: Now your show "Politically Incorrect" kind of created a trend of
programs in which comics...

Mr. MAHER: Yeah.

GROSS: ...and actors sat around and talked about politics.

Mr. MAHER: Yeah, I think it's funny now that so many other people are doing
it, and I've left it.

GROSS: Yeah. Why have you left it, and do you feel like you created a
monster (laughs)?

Mr. MAHER: I do, and I feel bad about it, and I should feel bad about it. It is
is a bit of a monster, just the idea that all sorts of celebrities have this
sort of half life, that they can go on and opine about various matters. And
even reality television is a lot about that. It's about celebrities who are
still famous in people's minds. They still go, `Oh, wow, Adam West' you know,
`William Shatner, it's good to see him again.' How can we use them? How can
we use people that the public doesn't see anymore but kind of gets a smile
from seeing once again? And so in some ways it's OK.

I personally felt like we outgrew that method of entertaining the American
audience, which is not to say that, you know, I quit "Politically Incorrect"
because I was tired of it. I plainly was fired because of something I said.
But it did come at a good time because I kind of felt like that era and that
phase of my career was drawing to a close. I was not as interested anymore in
talking to, you know, intellectually shallow celebrities about important
issues and having to paper over the fact that they didn't know what they were
talking about half the time. It was charming, I think, for a while. It was
kind of new and funny, `Oh, look at that. He doesn't know, and the other
guy's a real heavyweight. And here it is, our democracy, and we can see them
in action together.' But after a while, you know, I was enjoying it less.

I never enjoyed "Politically Incorrect" so much as the last nine months after
9/11, when everyone in the entertainment field kind of had to get serious for
a while. And we got more serious. We didn't start the show with the
monologue. We just had the panel there. And the panel was almost always,
after that, much more serious people. We had a lot of Muslim-Americans on to
explain their side of it. And we sort of dispensed with that, you know,
silly, you know, Pauly Shore kind of guest. And I love Pauly, but, you know,
he doesn't belong there talking about important issues.

GROSS: What's your criteria for guests now?

Mr. MAHER: Now it's a whole different ball game. They have to know what
they're talking about. They have to be involved in a serious way. So, you
know, like, the show we had Friday, Michael Moore--obviously, there's a guy
who takes it seriously; Kim Campbell, the former prime minister of Canada;
and a sitting congressman, Representative David Dreier. And these are all
serious people who can address whatever issue comes up.

In the old show we had to always have meetings, where we would go, `OK, now
I'd like to talk about the situation in Israel, but we have Pam Anderson on
the show this week. And, really, the only issue that she wants to talk about
and would be good on is animal rights. So, you know, we're going to have to
do Israel on Wednesday because'--so, you know, we don't have to do that
anymore. I can talk--I never have that meeting at all. We never even discuss
it. It talk about what I want to talk about, what went on that week and
what's important. And everybody on the panel, it is just assumed, can talk
about whatever issue comes up, and they can.

GROSS: Do you think that comics and political satirists like yourself, Jon
Stewart, Colin Quinn, Al Franken, are going to have an impact on the election?

Mr. MAHER: Yes, I do because, as has been widely reported, a good deal of
Americans, especially younger Americans, get their information from these
shows, especially the other fellows you mentioned, who are on every night.
And they've become a habit to people, and people love those shows and they go
by what they hear on those shows. So the point of view, to the degree that
those shows bring a point of view, is the one that people adopt because people
are looking for an opinion. They just...

GROSS: Is this a good thing or a bad thing that people are...

Mr. MAHER: It's a bad thing.

GROSS: ...getting their opinions from...

Mr. MAHER: It's a bad thing...

GROSS: ...comics and satirists? Uh-huh.

Mr. MAHER: ...because people form opinions based on not enough information to
really have an opinion. They want to have an opinion; they just don't want to
do the work that it takes to have an opinion. So they will adopt the Leno
opinion or the Jon Stewart opinion, or what they perceive as the opinion
there. And that sort of is an incestuous situation because I think the comics
take their opinion from what they perceive to be the public opinion. So I
don't know if we ever really look beyond very surface impressions of an issue,
you know. If John Kerry is--if you can get a laugh portraying John Kerry as
a flip-flopper, that's as deep as it goes, and then that's all that's
important. `He's a flip-flopper,' and there we get our joke. And then the
public--you know, that's just what they believe. They have that opinion:
`OK, John Kerry's a flip-flopper. That's one thing I know about politics.
How do I know that? Well, they're always making jokes about it, and
everybody's always laughing. It's got to be true.' Whereas, is it really
true? I don't know.

GROSS: You know, as a comic yourself, how do you feel when, you know, Al Gore
goes on "Saturday Night Live" or John McCain? Do you think that's a good
thing in that it, you know, kind of humanizes the candidate or the politician
and shows us another side of who they are, or do you think that that should be
saved for the actors?

Mr. MAHER: Yes, I think it's terrible. I think it's--again, they're
contributing to the problem. And the problem is that people don't vote a
candidate into office for the right reasons. The right reasons would be: Is
he brave? Is he strong? Is he wise? OK, that's not what they care about.
They care about: `How does he feel about me? What's he like?' It's not,
`What does he think?' It's `What does he feel?' It's almost like in the
Olympics, you know. They used to just show the athletics, and now we always
have to have a sort of a frosted lens back-story, so that we know who to root
for. `Oh, root for the runner from Kenya whose sister has multiple
sclerosis.' You know, it's like that's not really what this is about or
what's important. And so when these guys go on shows like that, it doesn't
make me like them more. It makes me like them less because they're pandering
at a level that does not increase the motivation for the voters to consider
what's really important about a guy.

GROSS: So, Bill, who's on your show this Friday?

Mr. MAHER: Terry, I'm glad you asked me that.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. MAHER: I have it right in front of me. It's Steve Harvey--I love Steve
Harvey; former Representative Bob Barr--I think we all remember him from
impeachment; and movie star Tim Robbins.

GROSS: Wait. Now Steve Harvey's a comic, right?

Mr. MAHER: Steve--yes.

GROSS: Didn't you just tell me that...

Mr. MAHER: Steve Harvey is a very popular African-American comic and radio
host.

GROSS: Oh. So--but didn't you just tell me you didn't like so much talking
to entertainment people?

Mr. MAHER: If they're stupid, but he is not.

GROSS: And Tim Robbins is an actor.

Mr. MAHER: I promise you, these guys know what's going on.

GROSS: OK.

Mr. MAHER: I wouldn't book them if they didn't, yes. I mean, all those years
that we did "Politically Incorrect," we kept files, many of them in my own
little mind, about who knew what was up and who didn't. So, yes--I mean, Tim
Robbins, I think, is rather well known for being an activist.

GROSS: Yes. And you're going to do a sketch at the beginning or a song?

Mr. MAHER: We always do a little...

GROSS: Not, like, a song.

Mr. MAHER: A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.
We always do what we call a cold open, yes, something a little amusing, a
little sketch play to...

GROSS: Did you ever want to act? Did you ever think about that?

Mr. MAHER: Well, darling, I actually was an actor for many years and was in
many...

GROSS: Funny, I didn't see you in anything (laughs).

Mr. MAHER: Well, you probably did, and you probably don't remember.

GROSS: Oh. What were you in?

Mr. MAHER: I had four television series.

GROSS: As an actor?

Mr. MAHER: This is in the '80s. Yes, ma'am.

GROSS: What shows?

Mr. MAHER: My first series was called "Sara" with Geena Davis and Bronson
Pinchot and Alfre Woodard. I did a series called "Hard Knocks." I did one
called "Charlie Hoover." You know, I was always in episodic television--you
know, "Murder She Wrotes" and "Max Headrooms" and whatever the shows were at
the time. And, you know, movies--never one that was, like, a huge hit. But,
yeah, that's how--I mean, I came out to California in 1983, and I started
"Politically Incorrect" in 1993. But most of the time in between that, that
'80s, early '90s era, I was a comedian and an actor. I mean, that's how I
made my living.

GROSS: Would you go back to acting?

Mr. MAHER: Never. A few years ago somebody asked me if I would do one day on
a picture, and I thought, `Well, I haven't done this in a long time. Why
don't I do this just to see if it's any fun, like I used to think it was fun.'
And it was a nightmare. It was, you know, too many hours, too much makeup
caked onto my face, too early in the morning. And as was my wont when I was
an actor, the movie was horrible. I never seemed to be able to get into a
project that was any good, indeed, I mean, that you wouldn't even want to walk
out of the theater. So I think I've resigned that.

And, also, I think my nature is completely opposite of what the acting nature
is. The actor is always trying to put on an illusion and conceal the truth or
build an alternate truth, whereas, really, my nature is the exact opposite.
I'm always trying to just say exactly what is the truth as I see it.

GROSS: Right. You want to say exactly what you think.

Mr. MAHER: Yeah.

GROSS: Well, Bill Maher, thank you so much for talking with us.

Mr. MAHER: Without getting fired.

GROSS: Without--too late for that, huh (laughs)?

Mr. MAHER: Knock wood this time.

GROSS: Thanks so much for talking with us.

Mr. MAHER: Pleasure always, Terry. Thank you.

GROSS: Bill Maher's HBO series "Real Time" started its new season last Friday
and continues Friday nights through the election.

Coming up, political satirist Colin Quinn, host of the Comedy Central series
"Tough Crowd." This is FRESH AIR.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Interview: Colin Quinn discusses his political views
TERRY GROSS, host:

Colin Quinn is a political satirist who first became known for anchoring
Weekend Update on "Saturday Night Live." Now he comments on the headlines on
his Comedy Central program "Tough Crowd." On each edition Quinn leads a
conversation with other comics about the issues of the day. It's broadcast
Monday through Thursday nights, right after "The Daily Show" with Jon Stewart.
Before we talk about the presidential campaign, here's a clip from last
night's edition of "Tough Crowd."

(Soundbite of "Tough Crowd")

Mr. COLIN QUINN: Does John Kerry's service in Vietnam make him a better
presidential candidate than George Bush?

Unidentified Man #1: Well, you know what? Why don't they--I wish they would
stop focusing on these kind of tangential issues, like, you know, who served
in Vietnam or who was a chicken [censored] deserter, you know.

(Soundbite of audience reaction and applause)

Unidentified Man #1: And I wish they would just focus on what matters. I
wish they'd focus on what matters, real issues that matter to Americans, like
who's got the bitchiest wife or, you know, who smoked pot or...

Unidentified Man #2: I'm not answering that.

Unidentified Man #1: You know, all these things matter. By the way, they did
not--he fought in Vietnam, but they keep leaving out that he didn't actually
fight. They just propped him up like a scarecrow to frighten the North
Vietnamese.

(Soundbite of laughter)

GROSS: We called Colin Quinn at home in New York.

Now you're voting for Bush in this election, yes?

Mr. COLIN QUINN ("Tough Crowd"): So far I am.

GROSS: Oh, so you're not completely sure.

Mr. QUINN: Well, I--you know, I'm not voting for Kerry, but I'm voting for
Bush. I mean, last time I voted for Nader. That's the kind of hipster I am.
I could vote for anybody. But, I mean, right now I'd vote for Bush.

GROSS: Tell me why.

Mr. QUINN: Because I just feel like it's--I don't know what else he was
supposed to do after 9/11 than to, you know, take like an offensive move. I
don't understand why Iraq was so wrong, yet people keep telling me how it was
the worst possible move and it's a mess. But it's like, you know, the mess
didn't start with just us pre-emptively striking. 9/11 was kind of a thing
that had to be reacted to, you know. So, I mean, I'm not saying that there
wasn't another probably better way. Yes, if he'd known what Iraq was like, we
could have done a better job of cleaning it up.

But I look at it--I mean, both sides make--you could look at it either way.
You could say, `Well, if we didn't have Republicans with their corporate
connections to Saudi royals and corrupt governments, these people wouldn't
have had an uprising, and 9/11 wouldn't have happened.' And that makes sense.
But you also could say, `Well, if we hadn't have been politically correct and
made the CIA not capable of doing anything in other countries in dealing with,
you know, the people that can give us information, who are--you know, have to
be kind of, you know, shady people, 9/11 wouldn't have happened.' And that
makes sense. So it's kind of hard for me to really get on any team as far as,
you know--I can't get into the righteous indignation of either side. It's
tough for me.

GROSS: What were your thoughts on the Democratic convention? You watched it?

Mr. QUINN: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: What did you think was, like, a high point and a low point?

Mr. QUINN: I thought that the low point was the fact that while I was
listening to Sharpton speak and watching all the white people melt and applaud
every two seconds over his demagoguery and his, you know--you know, just
everything he said was so vague from his immigration points, which made no
sense, to, you know, his accusations of like--you know, it just seems to me
like he got up there and gave that typical--which I know from stand-up
is--stand-up comics, it can work the room. All he did was work the room, and
if had been, like--I was just imagining the whole time if it was, like, a
Jerry Falwell or one of those right-wing Christians, how people would have
said, `Oh, my God! You know, he's really a demagogue. He's saying--it's just
just this vague accusatory, you know, hate speech.' And yet everybody went,
`Al Sharpton was brilliant.' That bugged me.

And, you know, I thought Kerry gave a good speech. But, again, it's like: Is
that really going to happen on a Democratic or Republican watch, where the
rich stop getting privilege and the poor people get the breaks? It's like,
you know, the world has not really changed enough. If anybody could do what
Kerry said he could do in that speech, of course, how could you not elect him?
But nobody does that, and nobody ever has because it's systematically
impossible,. And the world, you know, just doesn't allow for it, unless we
can floor, you know, all the human qualities like greed and stuff. I mean,
it's good that you're trying to perfect society, but suddenly John Kerry wakes
up at whatever age he is, and he's outraged when he gets on there: `You
people are being screwed!' like suddenly he's outraged now, you know? Where
was he the rest of his life, you know? I mean, but--so, I mean, I don't
believe any of these things are that--I don't believe people are that hot and
bothered about it.

That's why Ralph Nader is the one I kind of always believed 'cause at least
he's been outraged since I've heard of him. He's always been the same. He's
always like, `You're getting screwed.' These other people just jump in during
election time, and they're like, `You're getting'--you know what I mean? I
mean, just both sides just go to the American people: `You people, the
American people, are not going to fall for this.' And it's like, `Oh,' you
know. I just don't like this kind of sincerity.

GROSS: Yeah. As a comic, were there any, like, laugh lines that you thought
actually worked during the Democratic convention, and were there any that you
thought really failed and that you maybe would have liked to work on?

Mr. QUINN: Well, even despite what I said about Sharpton, he does have the
funniest delivery, you know. Like, when he says something for a laugh, he
gets his laugh, you know. But, I mean, you know, like, I feel this way about
Bush, and I feel this way about Kerry; I feel like whoever writes for them
should be ashamed of themselves because Kerry's slogan was--first it was
`Bring It On.' And then in this one, it was `America Can Do Better.' And
it's like, `Come on. You know, can you give him a better slogan than that?'
It's really horrible. It's corny, you know. They're holding up `America Can
Do Better,' and their part two of that thing, and it's, like, you know, who's
writing this stuff for these people?

GROSS: Now you said that you had voted for Ralph Nader in the 2000 election.

Mr. QUINN: I did.

GROSS: How come you're not voting for Nader this year?

Mr. QUINN: I'm not so sure I'm not.

GROSS: Oh. Why would you vote for him?

Mr. QUINN: Why would I vote for him?

GROSS: Uh-huh.

Mr. QUINN: Just because I'm outraged that people are so mad that--it's, like,
so funny because, like, in fascism, you have one person that is your choice.
It's so horrible, dictatorships. You only have one person. And here you have
two, one more than fascism. So it's like, you know, that's not good either.
So I just hate the fact that everybody's like, `Hey, we can't have three
parties spoiling things,' you know? I mean, I understand that it's close
calls, but it's like I wish there was more than just two candidates all the
time, you know, because sometimes I feel like what I agree with as far as
my--you know, my policy agreements run on both sides. Like, I'm pro choice,
and I'm pro death penalty. So, like, that's a good example of being--you
know, the Democrats would never say `pro death penalty,' and the Republicans
would never say, `pro choice,' really, you know.

GROSS: What are your expectations of the Republican convention, and what
would you like to see happen there?

Mr. QUINN: At the Republican convention?

GROSS: Yeah.

Mr. QUINN: I just want them to not, you know, totally make me feel like, `Ah,
I just forgot that I was on your side.' I just don't want them to embarrass
me with some awful music from, like, you know--I don't know what kind of music
they come up with, but it could be pretty horrific or just some--you know, I
just hope they get a good speaker, one person that gets up there and kind of,
you know, has some clarity, you know, maybe a little bit hip. Is that too
much to ask?

GROSS: My guest is political satirist Colin Quinn, host of the Comedy Central
series "Tough Crowd." We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: My guest is political satirist Colin Quinn, host of the Comedy Central
series "Tough Crowd." He's the former anchor of "Saturday Night Live"'s
Weekend Update.

Now, you know, a lot of conservatives are very anti-Hollywood. And I know you
live in New York and not LA.

Mr. QUINN: Yes.

GROSS: But you're still part of the show business family. So Hollywood is
perceived as very liberal. Being a part of the entertainment business and
actually being inclined to vote for President Bush, how do you feel about that
image of Hollywood as being liberal?

Mr. QUINN: It's not an image. They're all liberal. I mean, it's outrageous
how liberal it really is. I mean, it's completely liberal. But, I mean, it's
not a conspiracy, but they are all liberal, and all TV shows have a liberal
bent. And then when something like FOX News comes along, they all get
outraged, like, `How could they--FOX News!' You know? And it's, like, hey,
it's the one thing that's not liberal. I mean, you know, it's fine. They're
allowed to be liberal, but they are liberal. They can't deny Hollywood is
liberal.

And what bothers me about it is the fact that when they talk about these
corporations and exploitation in the Middle East leading to this kind of
stuff, they're pretending that they're not part of that with their cultural
imperialism that goes all over the world and also infuriates Islamic and
fundamentalist-type people. And they're making money off it, too. So it's
not just oil. It's Hollywood and everything else. So I just don't like when
people try to exclude themselves like they're--because they're not these stiff
oil guys, they think, `Yeah, we're part of something.' They're playing both
sides against--you know what I mean? And I just don't like that.

GROSS: So do you feel like you're in an embattled minority group as someone
who's voting for Bush but in show business?

Mr. QUINN: Yeah, I mean, of course. I don't feel it's embattled. I mean,
you know, I don't know that people really care. I mean, show business people
are relatively open. Most of the people I know, which is kind of--I feel like
it's bad on them--they're just shocked that I could be for Bush. And they
look at me like I'm from a foreign planet. Like, they really look at you
like, `What's going on with him? Has he cracked up? Is he insane?' Like,
you know what I mean? So it is kind of interesting to see the reaction. It's
more one of pity. It's like talking to some friend of yours that went crazy,
you know. `Is he a Christian?' You know? And it's like I'm none of these
things, you know. But it's like they just can't believe it. They're
horrified, and they can't believe it, but they're not even horrified or mad at
me. They're just, like, `Wow, you know, that guy went crazy.' (Laughs) And
it's like I just feel like if you're a comedian, you should see both sides are
hypocritical, and both sides are, you know--obviously, from history, Democrats
or Republicans, society only changes as much as it changes. Neither one of
them has that much to do with the economy changing. And, you know, it's like
it just bothers me when anybody gets righteous, you know.

GROSS: How did your family vote when you were young?

Mr. QUINN: Democrats all the way. I'm a registered Democrat.

GROSS: Oh, you are?

Mr. QUINN: Yeah. Well, at least I was. I think I still am. I'll have to
look at my thing, but I've been a registered Democrat my whole life, but I've
been voting Republican. I voted for Giuliani, you know.

GROSS: So what's behind the shift then? If you usually vote Democratic,
what's behind the shift to voting Republican in this election?

Mr. QUINN: Well, maybe it's because, you know, I just like to mix it up a
little bit. I don't like to--I mean, it's not like I'm some hard-core
Republican down the line. So it's kind hard for me to say, `I'm voting
Republican because they stand for what I stand for,' you know what I mean?
But it's just that the Democrats, I just feel like--I get--a lot of it has to
do--and I hate to steal Dennis Miller's life and his opinions, but that's what
I'm going to do right now. A lot of it had to do with Giuliani.

When Giuliani was in charge of the city, I had to deal with all these people
moving, you know, into New York from wherever they're from and getting
outraged over police brutality. And, meanwhile, the amount of brutality
complaints and the amount of deaths by police were down, like, so much more
than they were under Dinkins. Yet the perception was, `Giuliani's a Nazi.'
And I saw all these people walking around saying, `He's dividing the city,'
like the racial divide had something to do with him and not the history of the
country. And so I guess that kind of made me pretty angry, I have to admit.
And it made me even angrier when Dennis Miller said it first, but, I mean, but
that did make me think, `Wow,' you know.

Like it just goes to show both sides have their own little, you know
hypocrite--and then I watched people get outraged if I said I liked Giuliani.
They were, like, `What?' And I was, like, `He's done a lot of good, even more
than most politicians,' you know. And they're like, `He's a power man,' and
they give these vague ideas about how he's repressing New York, and it was,
like, you know, I don't know. That just kind of threw me for a big loop, I
think.

GROSS: So if we were to poll the comedy community, as it were, how do you
think the poll would come out?

Mr. QUINN: As far as liberal, conservative?

GROSS: Yes, as far as this election.

Mr. QUINN: I would say probably the white and black would be different. If
you polled the white comedians, probably 90 percent of them would be
anti-Bush and 10 percent would be pro-Bush. And if you polled the black
comedians, they'd probably all say, `Oh, either way, you know, it's going to
be white people doing their thing,' you know what I mean? Like, most of the
black comedians that I hang out with seem to be, you know, of the mind-set
that, `Well, this is business as usual,' you know.

GROSS: Well, Colin Quinn, thanks so much for talking with us.

Mr. QUINN: Thanks, Terry.

GROSS: Colin Quinn is the host of "Tough Crowd," which is shown on Comedy
Central Monday through Thursday nights after "The Daily Show" with Jon
Stewart.

(Soundbite of music)

(Credits)

GROSS: I'm Terry Gross.
Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.