Rock Critic Ken Tucker

DATE March 24, 2003 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Hampton Sides discusses his decision to not be an
imbedded journalist in the Iraq war
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

Imbedded journalists traveling with the military are bringing us extraordinary
reports from the battlefield, and they're risking their lives to do it. My
guest, Hampton Sides, was almost one of them, but at the last minute he had
second thoughts and backed out. He explained why in an article published in
The New Yorker's March 24th edition. Now he's in Doha, Qatar, covering
Central Command. Sides is a contributor to the online magazine Slate and is
also writing for Men's Journal. He's the author of the World War II book
"Ghost Soldiers," about the Bataan Death March.

Earlier today we called Hampton Sides in Qatar to talk about covering Central
Command, life in Qatar, where public opinion is against the war, and his
decision not to travel with the military.

Was there a specific moment when you said to yourself, `That's it. I can't go
through with this. I am not going to be an embedded reporter'?

Mr. SIDES: Yeah. I had had doubts all week about it, but I think that the
moment for me was when there was a fairly--fairly vivid discussion about what
would happen if you were to throw up in your gas mask--with your gas mask on.
And the question was raised--it was ac--actually a serious question because
nausea is one of the--you know, one of the first symptoms of some of these
chemical agent attacks. And the young instructor who was giving us this
tutorial clearly had never visited that question before. It was sort of a
fine point that he had not considered. And--and he talked--you know, tried to
imagine--well, he--he showed where the clear--the clear valve was where
you--you should blow out, you know--if you throw up, you would blow it out of
this valve.

And, you know, I was just--you know, I had my gas mask on. I was listening to
this conversation. I was looking at all of us soon-to-be-embedded journalists
out there on the tennis court at the--at the Hilton in Kuwait City and I said,
`You know, I don't know if I can--I don't know if I can do this. I--I--I
don't know if I'm going to--I'm going to be confident enough to--with my
equipment in case something were to happen.' I think--I think that was really
the moment for me.

GROSS: Did you feel like, `But I have to go through with it; otherwise I'll
be a coward'?

Mr. SIDES: Definitely. You know, I think there was--there is about the
embed process--there was kind of a--maybe a--a macho peer pressure. Most of
us were--were guys, and many of us were, you know, very, you know, seasoned,
hardened war correspondents, or what--what I might call military hardware
geeks, you know, people who live and breathe this stuff. And we were--you
know, there was a--a forward momentum as we--as--as the days wound down and it
was about time to embed where, you know, of course we're going to go through
with this. We all had our doubts. We--we all were scared. There was endless
articles in the Kuwait newspaper about all the things that we thought Saddam
had to throw our way. We kind of spooked each other out at night telling, you
know, biochemical ghost stories. So--so, yes, I mean, I think we were all
scared, but--but there was a--a pressure to go ahead with this at all costs.

And--and, you know, I--I fully intended to do it right up until the very, very
end. It was--it was really the last night before the buses were going to come
take us away that I--you know, I just--I looked at--you know, I looked myself
in the mirror and I said, you know, `I--I don't need this. I--I don't have to
do this. I'll turn in my chem suit and try to cover this war in some--in some
other way.'

GROSS: Did you tell any of your fri--friends who were also going through this
embed training process that you were leaving, and what kind of reaction did
you get?

Mr. SIDES: Yeah. That morning I--I did, two--two guys in particular who
became buddies of mine. And, you know, I--I did expect--I did expect a kind
of a--a, you know, like, `You wimped out' kind of thing. And--and, in fact,
the reaction was--was just--they--they totally understood. I think they were
maybe perhaps a little bit envious of me. I--you know, but they understood
that this is a decision that everybody has to make in their gut, and--and--and
they have to go with it. And they--and once you do make that decision you
can't look back. And--and really I--I--I don't know if it was the right
decision or the wrong decision, but I know that it was the right decision for
me at--at that time, and I haven't looked back.

You know, the--there is a kind of curious dynamic to this war, which is that,
you know, we are trying to prove to the world that Saddam Hussein has these
weapons. We want him to have these weapons. He better have these weapons, or
else in some ways it val--invalidates the stated purposes of--of--of the war.
And we--we would have to have good reason to believe that if he has these
weapons he would use them.

And--and so I--I kind of went into this feeling like not only--only was I not
quite sufficiently prepared, you know, in terms of just dealing with my
equipment, but also I kind of felt like we were--the embedded reporters were
kind of like lab rats, you know, going into an experience--kind of a--an
experiment, a chemical experiment. We just don't know what's going to happen.
And--and let's hope nothing does happen. But as they get closer to Baghdad I
think there is a great fear that some--you know, God forbid, the--the
unthinkable will happen.

GROSS: You said you had other doubts, too, all week during your training
process. What were some of your other doubts?

Mr. SIDES: I wasn't sure what the embedded process was really going to be
like. You know, I know that when--and I thi--I think it still remains to be
seen, you know, the--what's going to happen in terms of the quality of the
reporting. We've seen some very vivid footage: live battle--battle scenes.
And--and--and I think overall the--the reporters have--have--have been given a
lot of latitude to report pretty much what they--what they're seeing. But,
you know, I had some doubts about what embedding--what--what--you know, how
was this going to limit my experi--my experience, my--you know, you get
embedded with one unit and you are necessarily constrained by--you know, by
that one very limited vantage point. So I--I guess I--I was somewhat
concerned about that.

And I was also concerned about the fact that I was given the ver--poten--well,
arguably the most dangerous embed slot on the battlefield, and this is purely
by luck of the draw. I didn't know about it till I got to Kuwait, and they
said, `Well, you--you're going to be with 1st Recon of the 1st Marines. And
recon is, by definition, you know, the eyes and ears of--of--of the Marines.
And the Marines are, as you've seen, I think, you know, front and center.
In--in all the battles of southern Iraq already, they've--they've been
everywhere. And I think that influenced my decision as well.

I mean, I--I--I--you know, if this had been a different slot, and there are so
many--I mean, hundreds of embedded slots. And some of the slots, of course,
are actually quite dull and quite boring. I talked to one guy who was--was
going to be with something like the 313th Support Wing, which in--you know, is
involved with moving supplies around. And he said he was going to write the
definitive MRE story. You know--you know, he was trying to make--put the best
face on...

GROSS: Right.

Mr. SIDES: ...what was essentially a dull slot.

GROSS: But--but a...

Mr. SIDES: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: ...supply convoy was ambushed. I mean, that--that could be pretty
dangerous, too.

Mr. SIDES: Yeah. I think that that illustrates another point that, you
know, in this kind of ground war there are no safe--quote, unquote, "safe" or
"unsafe" slots. I mean, it--you know, it's a very fluid battlefield.
That--the--the lines are not clean. There are these enclaves and--and there
are, you know, all--you know, pockets of resistance all--all--all up and down
the battlefield, so in a way no one is safe.

And luckily so far nothing has happened to any of the embedded journalists.
There have been, unfortunately, some unilateral journalists who--who have been
killed or are missing, as--as you know. But, you know, I'm crossing my
fingers and just, you know, hope and pray that nothing happens to these guys.

GROSS: What kind of journalistic guidelines were you given during your
training about what you'd be able to reveal and what you wouldn't be able to
reveal?

Mr. SIDES: We had to sign some ground rules, which, if you read them, were
fairly--they all made sense. I mean, they really had to do with--especially
with reporters who were broadcasting live from a battlefield.
These--these--most of the restrictions would not have applied to me because I
was writing a magazine piece that would have been published a month or so down
the line. So the real concern was giving away information that the enemy
could--could use and--and that would jeopardize, you know--jeopardize the
safety of the soldiers. The unit commander always had--had control over, you
know, when you could file and, you know, if you were in the heat of battle you
had to--you had--you had to get, you know, the consent of the unit commanders
if the situation was not--was not safe.

And there were some other restrictions that had to do with the use of lights.
Television crews are not allowed to use light in nighttime situations where
they--they feel like they're in danger. Mo--most of the ground rules were
actually quite commonsensical. And as far as I know, no one has violated or
even attempted to violate those ground rules.

GROSS: And what about protection? Were you expected to be protecting
yourself, or were you supposed to get any protection from the unit that you
would have been traveling with?

Mr. SIDES: The one thing--yeah. Part of the rules of--of the embed process
were that you are not allowed to carry or use a weapon. You're not allowed to
protect yourself. You are fully, you know--you're protected by--by your unit
that you're embedded with. And, you know, I--I don't--I think that it would
have been viewed as a very bad PR situation if--if one of these
embed--embedded journalists were to get hurt or, God forbid, killed. And so,
you know, I did feel that the Marines, in my case, would have taken care of me
to the extent possible.

You know, we--we had to provide our own flack jacket and our own helmet--our
Kevlar helmet. And, you know, we were presumably gonna--gonna be kept back a
little bit from the action. But again, as we've seen, the action is all
around. It--it's in pockets all over the place. And it's impossible to
assure the safety of--of a journalist. You know, if you think that, you know,
you can just be held back a--a ways from the front lines.

GROSS: My guest is journalist Hampton Sides. He's in Qatar, where he's
covering Central Command. We'll talk more after our break. This is FRESH
AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: If you're just joining us, Hampton Sides is joining us by phone from
Qatar. He's a--a journalist who had planned to become an embedded journalist,
but at the last minute, during some of the germ warfare training, he decided
to back out.

So the--the unit that you would have been embedded with, had you decided
to--to stay with that, was--was the Marine 1st Recon Division. Have you been
kept--keeping up with that unit that you would have been embedded with?

Mr. SIDES: Only in bits and pieces. It's--it's hard for me to keep up with
them personally. I don't have any ma--mode of communication. But--but, you
know, they've cropped up. I mean, the first--1st Recon have cropped up in
news stories, and certainly the 1st Marines are everywhere. I mean,
practically every major firefight or--or pocket of resistance has ended up
involving the 1st Marines. So they're very much in the thick of things,
as--as I was told they would be, and, you know, I'm not surprised.

GROSS: You were going to be covering the Marines, who have a reputation for
being really strong, tough, macho. How did they see you as a
report--port--port--porter? Were you considered like a different specie,
or...

Mr. SIDES: Well, the--they--you know, they had been told that this embed
thing was--was an important--an experiment, basically, and that it had to
work. And they--they--you know, all around the Hilton, I mean, you know--you
understand I didn't actually go to camp out with them. I was--the buses were
literally leaving that morning...

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. SIDES: ...and I decided I couldn't go through with this. And so--but
all the Marines around the--you know, the Hilton, all the public affairs
officers, all the various representatives were just--I mean, just very--yeah,
I mean, they did kind of look at us a little different. I think there was a
little mutual sizing each other up. You know, there's always been a--a level
of, I'd say, mut--mutual distrust between journalists and--and--and the
military. But--but at the same time, you know, this is a whole new ball game.
This embed thing is an experiment. It seems to be working. And, you know,
they--they were--they were, I think, bending over backwards to be nice to us
as they told us these chemical stories and as we got our shots. I go--I got
my anthrax shot and my--my smallpox vaccination. And, you know, the Marines
were right there with us kind of coaching us along.

GROSS: And would it be fair to say that the--this--this allowed you to see
the military in a way different from how you'd seen the military before?

Mr. SIDES: I'd say yes. You know, it's--it's--you know, and this is--what I
need to say here, the--when I made the decision not to embed it was a--it was
at a critical point because the buses were literally leaving to take us away
to camp out with these guys and to be with them finally, after much, much
talk. And that's when I knew that I--I knew this--this was the mo--this was
the moment where I had to decide because if I came under their care, if I
started eating their food and if I started camping out with them I knew that I
was going to become good friends with them. I love talking to soldiers. I,
you know, have written a book about--about soldiers in World War II. I--I
knew that it would be almost impossible for me to leave at that point.
And--and--and, you know, if I were going to hold my head up high and make this
decision, this was the moment, before--before the buses left. And, you know,
it was really critical for me to make that decision when I did.

GROSS: Do you think the dynamic of getting very close to the soldiers that
the journalists are covering and eating the military's food and traveling with
the military will affect their coverage, will affect the kind of journalistic
distance that you expect from journalists?

Mr. SIDES: Yeah. They talk about what they call the Stockholm syndrome, or
the military version of that, this idea that you come to sort of identify with
the guys that you're with in a situation like this. And I'm sure, to a
certain extent, that is inevitable. And there's another component of that,
and that is that these guys are literally defending your life. Your life is
dependent upon them. And so it will be difficult, I think, for journalists to
be entirely objective.

I think, you know, it's better than what we had in the first Persian Gulf War,
where we essentially didn't have this type of proximity. But at the same
time, yes, I think objectivity will be hard because you, you know, will become
over time essentially a member of the Marines. And, you know, it's going to
be hard to say something critical, if something critical is called for, about
a person that you've been camping with and who you've come to kind of feel
that you owe your life to. So, you know, that is difficult in a way, and
that's something that certainly occurred to me when I accepted this
assignment.

GROSS: You know, I think sometimes in war that imagination can be your enemy
because you can vividly imagine all kinds of ways of getting captured and
tortured and killed and gassed and so on.

Mr. SIDES: Absolutely. Yeah.

GROSS: And this could be your enemy. You don't want to be thinking about
that. You're not only, you know, a writer who uses your imagination as part
of your work, but you also wrote a book called "Ghost Soldiers," which was, in
part, about the Bataan Death March, a march during World War II in which
Americans taken prisoner of war by Japanese were marched for hundreds of
miles...

Mr. SIDES: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

GROSS: ...and the men who dropped during that march were either killed or
left to die. It's a horrible episode of war history, which probably could
only make your imagination even worse. And I'm wondering if writing that book
was almost a liability in preparing to be an embedded reporter?

Mr. SIDES: It's possible, you know, because I certainly did not, when I went
into this, think that it...

GROSS: Let me start by saying, because you had all the imagination from
writing this, but you'd never kind of experienced it. Sometimes experiencing
it can, like, exorcise some of those fears because you've been through it;
you've witnessed the reality as opposed to just imagining it.

Mr. SIDES: Right. Right. No. And I imagined all sorts of scenarios that,
you know, are actually playing out now that we've, you know, had four or five
days of battle. We've seen how many things can go wrong, you know, from
ambushes and false surrenders to prisoners of war being mistreated. You know,
we haven't really had a true ground war since Vietnam and, you know, we're
starting to see how messy--and I think Secretary Rumsfeld used the word
`untidy'--war can be. My book was certainly about, you know, that other side
of war that we don't talk about, like what happens when you lay down your arms
and become a prisoner, and, you know, all the other circumstances of war that
don't sort of fit into the kind of clean portrait and heroic portrait of war
that we're used to seeing.

So, yes, I think, you know, certainly, that chemical weapons are--I think
their main power over us is fear of the unknown, the uncertainty of what might
be coming. I've heard them called Saddam's `bogeyman weapons.' You know, he
may or may not actually have them in a capacity to use them. He may not have
delivery systems. But just the fact that he has them and the fact that these
chemical weapons are horrible I think preyed on all of our...

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. SIDES: ...you know, on all of us. And, you know, you just start
imagining VX or sarin gas. You start thinking about all these things could
happen. In fact, the odds of them actually happening I think are quite small.
These weapons are not very good. They tactically are not a smart weapon. You
know, the odds are very slim that Saddam would successfully be able to use
them and employ them in any way. And yet, you know, all of our thoughts were
kind of trained on all these chemical possibilities.

GROSS: Well, why did you want to cover the war to begin with?

Mr. SIDES: Well, you know, I think that this is a moment in our history
where we're going to see the tectonic plates shift. And, you know, I'm a
historian. This is almost like a front-row seat to history. I don't think
this is like other wars and other police actions that we've had. This is the
real thing, and the consequences of this war, and the repercussions, are going
to be felt for years and decades to come. And so I knew when I got this
assignment late in the game that I really wanted to see this unfold in some
way. I quickly found I was a little over my head in terms of this specific
embed assignment I got, but I knew I wanted to be here. This is history
happening, and it's happening on so many different levels. And it's such a
complicated war with so much world opinion mounted against us that I knew that
I wanted to be here to witness it.

GROSS: Hampton Sides speaking to us from Qatar in an interview recorded
earlier today. Sides is contributing to the online magazine Slate and
reporting for Men's Journal. We'll continue the interview in the second-half
of the show. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

Let's get back to the interview we recorded earlier with journalist Hampton
Sides, who's in Qatar covering Central Command. That's not the way he planned
to spend the war. He was training to be an embedded reporter, but when he got
to the gas mask and chemical warfare suit, he realized this wasn't for him.
Now he's beginning a journal for Slate, the online magazine, and is reporting
for Men's Journal. I asked him what he's been doing in between covering
Central Command press conferences.

Mr. SIDES: Well, for many journalists, this has proved to be kind of an
Alcatraz sentence. For the first several weeks, there were absolutely no
press conferences, and there was kind of an information famine. Everybody was
going out to this place which has been built, out in the middle of the desert.
I don't know if you saw the movie "Capricorn One," but it reminds me of that,
sort of this huge hangar built out in the middle, literal and figurative,
nowhere, where suddenly you open the door and there's light and there's a set
and there's this kind of sense of, you know, computers humming and clocks set
to Greenwich Mean Time and, you know, this high-tech center in the middle of
nowhere.

So we'd go out there and just twiddle our thumbs and wait for something to
happen and wait and wait and wait. And then, finally, everything happened two
days ago when General Tommy Franks gave his first conference. And we've been
extremely busy ever since because, you know, the war is happening. There's a
million stories to run down. And yet we're also frustrated because it's
become quite apparent that a central command, a central clearinghouse, for
information is kind of an increasingly obsolete idea. You know, you don't
need that for news gathering when have reporters embedded all over the place.
You have unilateral reporters everywhere. You have news coming from Baghdad,
you know, live. You know, you have everyone on satellite phones and video
phones and, you know, video compression, which is the loudest--to see all
these imagines, you know, from multiple vantage points, you know, as it's
happening, I think it's kind of made Central Command kind of not nearly as
important as it would otherwise have been.

GROSS: Have you been watching TV a lot and watching the embedded reporters?

Mr. SIDES: Yes. And, you know, a lot of people are, you know, getting their
information from television and then, you know, hopefully trying to find a way
to confirm that at Central Command. But outside of the Central Command, the
main room there, there is a bank of five different TVs, and they're set to,
you know, Fox and CNN and the BBC. And, you know, we're all kind of
triangulating our information by watching television and then asking each
other and then, finally, you know, when these press conferences occur, as one
happened just a few hours ago, you know, we're trying to refine this a little
bit and get the best and most up-to-date information.

GROSS: What are your impressions of the quality of information that you're
getting from Central Command?

Mr. SIDES: Well, General Franks has been very--in a lot of ways, he's kind of
the direct opposite of Secretary Rumsfeld. He doesn't give a lot of
information. If you really look at what he's saying, he's saying, `We don't
know. We're going to find out in the days ahead. I have no idea.' In a way,
sometimes it's comforting that he's not speculating, and it's rare for a
four-star general to go on television and say, `I don't know.'

On the other hand, it's very frustrating because, you know, he has a lot of
information and he has a lot of access to just unbelievable amounts of
information that's coming through his command there. And yet, you know, we
leave these conferences quite frustrated that, you know, we really haven't
learned very much. He says that, you know, `We're not surprised by anything
that we're seeing.' He's saying that, you know, `The plan is marching ahead
and that we're on course, and, you know, we'll see what happens in the days
ahead.' And, you know, journalists, I think, get frustrated with that sort of
information. In fact, you know, I think he's just being very discrete and
very prudent. And hopefully these press conferences, the quality of
information will get better as the days go on.

GROSS: Where are you staying? Are you staying in a hotel?

Mr. SIDES: Staying in a hotel here, the lovely Marriott, and, you know,
heading out to CENTCOM, which is inconveniently located about 12 miles south
of town in the middle of the desert. And, you know, Qatar is an interesting
place. You know, it's a tiny postage-stamp country that actually feels in
some ways more like India or Pakistan because over two-thirds of the
population are expatriate workers from India and Pakistan and Bangladesh who
basically make the country work. And, you know, everything from the
cabdrivers to most of the restaurants and all the domestics are from another
country.

And so we hop into a cab, invariably it'll be a Pakistani cabdriver. And
we'll head over CENTCOM and go through what sometimes takes over an hour of
security. There's dogs sniffing for bombs, and there's all kind of, you know,
searching of your bags. There's an X-ray machine. Then you get on a little
shuttle bus and go just like 3 or 400 yards, but for some reason they make us
all get on this little shuttle bus and enter this airplane hangar, which if
you saw it, you would assume it was just a storage facility, a prefabricated
metal warehouse. You would never think it was anything special till you walk
inside and realize that this is really the nerve center for this gigantic war
that's going on in this theater.

GROSS: And when you get back to the hotel at night, I mean, do they turn down
your covers and turn on the radio for you and put chocolates on your bed? I
mean, what's the kind of disconnect between the hotel and the war you're
covering?

Mr. SIDES: Yeah. Well, there's a lot of disconnect, and it makes it quite
surreal for the journalists here because, you know, you're fairly well
pampered here. I mean, there's people who--I mean, you know, like, they won't
allow you to serve yourself or, you know--I mean, this isn't a particularly
fancy hotel, and yet there's just legions of people who come and remove your,
you know, banana peel from your plate the second it hits the plate. You know,
there's just an unbelievable service sector here of people from India,
Pakistan, also the Philippines. And so everyone here is pampered and feeling
somewhat maybe guilty about that. Many of the journalists are staying over at
the Ritz-Carlton Hotel, you know, a five-star hotel, that's frequented mostly
by, you know, Indonesian businessmen and sheiks and is owned by the emir here.

So there's just this kind of odd sense of we're covering this horrible war and
yet going back to these, you know, wonderful hotels. And, you know, they also
have bars here, which in the hotels are allowed to serve alcohol in a country
that is otherwise dry. It's very difficult, you know, to get a drink.
There's certainly no bars anywhere but the hotels. And, you know, yeah, it's
two different worlds that, you know, you just kind of leave one and go to the
other and then come back.

GROSS: My guest is journalist Hampton Sides. He's in Qatar where he's
covering Central Command. We'll talk more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: Let's get back to the conversation we recorded earlier today with
Hampton Sides, a journalist who's now in Qatar covering Central Command.

What do you do in between briefings?

Mr. SIDES: Well, there are a lot of other stories to track down here. Also,
Al-Jazeera, the Arab CNN so to speak, is based here. And I've been talking to
some of the Al-Jazeera folks, running down stories in various places. I'm
actually trying to get out--apparently, there's some world-class dunes here
that--a number of the journalists who are bored out of their minds in the
morning are trying to figure out something to do, and we're going out to these
dunes in a four-wheel drive.

In Qatar, there's a fairly large culture of falconry. It's the sport of the
sheiks, you know, people who participate in this sport of falconry. And
there's a number of journalists going out to look at some of these falconry
exhibitions. So there's a little of everything to do here, but, you know, now
that the war is really on in earnest, we're pretty busy.

GROSS: You mentioned Al-Jazeera being headquartered in Qatar. Have you
spoken to any of the journalists from that network?

Mr. SIDES: I have, and I've spoken to their spokesperson about it. And, you
know, they're right now in kind of the eye of the storm because of their
decision to run this horrible footage. I don't even know if it's been
available in the States, but they have aired it here on some of the channels.
And you can get Al-Jazeera here in the hotel. And it's just despicable. I
mean, it really makes you wonder what was going through their minds,
especially a station like Al-Jazeera, which has tried to really make the case
that they are a modern and objective network. This sort of set them back, and
they have been very defensive about it.

GROSS: This is footage of dead American soldiers that you're talking about.

Mr. SIDES: Yes, the footage of the POWs and of the dead soldiers that--it
looks like they had been executed. It's not absolutely clear. But, you know,
they show their faces, and they show their uniforms and make a very concerted
effort to show the identity of the dead soldiers. And it's a really horrible
thing. And they're defending it, in part, by saying that it's news because
Iraqi television has been airing it and has been making a lot of this. But I
don't--none of the answers are really ringing true to me. It's very difficult
to understand why they're doing this. And it's not just been one airing.
It's been airing constantly, you know, for two days now.

GROSS: What have been the reactions of people from Qatar to the broadcast of
this film or tape?

Mr. SIDES: Well, my main exposure is really to the cabdrivers who are
appalled by it. Now they're also appalled by the war. You know, this country
is only nominally, I would say, supportive of this effort. I mean, you know,
the whole war essentially is based here in their tiny country, but I would say
most of people are opposed; many of them not quite violently so but vehemently
so. So they're opposed to the war, but, you know, I think that most people
here think that, you know, this repeated broadcast of these images over and
over again is--you know, they're appalled by it, like everyone else.

GROSS: So, you know, I'd like to hear more about the reactions you're getting
from people who you meet in Qatar. You say it's mostly taxi drivers, but, you
know, people apparently are opposed to the war, yet there's all these
Westerners there to cover the war. So is that opposition to the war being
directed at you and other Americans in a personal way? Are you getting a
sense of hostility?

Mr. SIDES: No, I would not say so. You know, journalists are here from so
many countries, from all over the world, and I think the locals here
understand that this is a world event happening on their doorstep and, you
know, they're not taking it out on the journalists. You know, at the same
time, they were not allowed--you know, this is not a democracy. And the
decision to base this, you know, have CENTCOM come here was fundamentally the
decision of the emir.

So a lot of times, these locals are just sort of--it's dawning on them as the
week unfolds just how huge an operation is here and just how intricately their
country's fate is tied up in this war. And, you know, I've noticed as the
week has gone on that they're a little bit more and more confused and troubled
by it. You know, they're certainly, I would say, overwhelmingly opposed to
the war even if they recognize that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant, perhaps was.
I think he's still alive. You know, they're opposed to Saddam Hussein, but,
you know, they just don't see this war as being anything that they want their
country involved in.

GROSS: Hampton, one more thing. We only have...

Mr. SIDES: I should say that's markedly different from Kuwait. You know,
Kuwait was invaded by Iraq, and, you know, the locals in Kuwait are
overwhelmingly supportive. And although there are foreign workers there that
are opposed, Kuwaitis have very vivid memories of '91 and, you know, are very
loyal to the Americans and very pleased that this is all finally happening,
but in Doha, in Qatar, the reaction is somewhat different in that way.

GROSS: You know, we're talking on a terrific phone line. I've had phone
lines from New York that are much worse than this. It's a great phone line.
Is that representative of the level of technology in Qatar?

Mr. SIDES: You know, it's a very well-oiled and well-wired society. Things
work here, you know. Just the infrastructure of this country is quite
extraordinary for a place that, you know, most people have never even heard of
and which is in part of the world where often the phones don't work. Let's
face it. So, yes, but then suddenly things don't work. You find that, you
know, it's kind of like there's a veneer of high tech, but underneath
that--you know, this phone, for example, you know, it's a great phone line but
I've been talking on the phone doing some other interviews when suddenly just
for--inexplicably, you know, the phone goes dead.

So I don't know. It's high-tech and yet it's also an almost futile society
that, you know, run by an emir who has absolute control and has at least four
wives. And, you know, women have very limited rights here. They can't vote.
They can drive, which is at least a start. And, you know, it's a very
conservative, in some respect, futile society. So there's kind of an unusual
degree of modernity here and tolerance. They allow alcohol here in hotels and
limited places, but at the same time, you know, in some ways feels like it's
one or two steps away from being a Bedouin society. When you go out into the
desert, you know, it's almost like you've gone back 200 years in time.

GROSS: When you were going to be an embedded reporter, you're going to be
doing that for Men's Journal. I confess. I don't even know the magazine, but
it's not in the upper ranks of news magazines. Were you kind of treated any
differently because you were representing Men's Journal than you would have
been if you were a representing, say, The New York Times or the New Yorker,
you know, Time, Newsweek?

Mr. SIDES: No, absolutely not. Most of the Marines and the other armed
forces had heard and were avid readers of the magazine.

GROSS: I guess they're men. I'm not. That might have something to do with
it.

Mr. SIDES: Right. Right. Right. And, you know, I don't think that ended
up being a factor. I thought it might, but not at all. Big fans of the
magazine.

GROSS: Well, Hampton Sides, thank you so much. Good luck to you. Thank you
for your time talking with us.

Mr. SIDES: Thanks. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on the show. I do
appreciate it.

GROSS: Hampton Sides, recorded earlier today from Qatar, where he's covering
Central Command. He's contributing to Slate and reporting for Men's Journal.
Sides is also the author of the World War II book "Ghost Soldiers."

Well, it's officially spring, but the season isn't bringing the joy it's
famous for. Here's a spring song with a somber tone. Frank Loesser's "Spring
Is Here" sung by Abbey Lincoln.

(Soundbite of music)

Ms. ABBEY LINCOLN: (Singing) Spring will be a little late this year, a
little late arriving in our lonely world over here, 'cause you have left us
and where is our April of old? You have left us and winter continues cold as
if to say spring will be a little slow to start, a little slow reviving the
music you left in our hearts. Yes, time heals all things, so we needn't
cling to this fear. It's merely that spring will be a little late this year.

GROSS: Abbey Lincoln singing "Spring Will Be A Little Late This Year."

Coming up, rock critic Ken Tucker reviews a CD by a band that does covers of
Rogers and Hart, Julie Stein and others. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Review: The Smoking Popes' "The Party's Over"
TERRY GROSS, host:

We're going to lighten things up for a couple of minutes and hear about a band
our rock critic Ken Tucker likes a lot. The just-released "The Party's
Over" by The Smoking Popes was recorded in 1998 shortly before the band broke
up. The pop rock group had a cult following and even inspired a tribute
album. Ken says The Popes' final released is worth being heard by a wider
audience.

Mr. JOSH CATERER (The Smoking Popes): (Singing) Seven lonely days make one
lonely week, seven lonely nights make one lonely me. Ever since the time you
told me we were through, seven lonely days I cried and I cried for you. Oh,
my darling, I'm crying, boo-hoo-hoo-hoo. Ain't no use in denying, I cried for
you. What's your favorite pastime...

KEN TUCKER reporting:

Everything good and worth saluting about The Smoking Popes, who broke up in
1998, can be heard in the lead-off cut to "The Party's Over." The Smoking
Popes singer/guitarist Josh Caterer takes a fairly obscure country song,
"Seven Lonely Days," a hit for the female vocalist Jean Shepard in 1969, and
first of all, does a beautiful, forceful rendition of it, but he also imbues
it with a quality that distinguished The Smoking Popes career throughout the
'90s, a kind of sensitive assertiveness, the advancement of wimpiness as a
virtue.

Mr. CATERER: (Singing) I'm wild again, beguiled again, a whimpering,
simpering child again. Be with the father in bewilderment, and I could not
sleep...

TUCKER: The Smoking Popes moving gently through Rogers and Hart. "The
Party's Over" is a collection of such unlikely covers, including composers
ranging from Comdin and Green to Kris Kristofferson. This is an entirely
atypical project. On their other albums, this Illinois band, led by three
brothers, Josh, Matt and Eli Caterer, recorded a few albums of their own post
punk rock and ballads that earned them a cult following, a brief stint on
Capitol Records and spots on tours as the opening act for at least two artists
whose musical styles they uncanningly crossed, Green Day and Morrissey. The
Popes' sound was most characteristic of the kind of punchy pop energy they
give this album's title song.

Mr. CATERER: (Singing) The party's over. It's time to call it a day. We'll
burst your pretty balloons in taking the moon away. It's time to wind up the
masquerade. Just make your mind up, the piper must be paid. The party's
over.

TUCKER: It's a bit ironic that one of the reasons The Smoking Popes, with
their potentially offensive band name broke up, is that one of the Caterer
brothers, Josh, found religion and broke away to make more spiritual music
with a band he formed called Duvall, which makes The Popes' 1998 cover of the
Gospel standard "Farther Along" all the more prophetic.

Mr. CATERER: (Singing) Tempted and tried we're oft made to wonder why it
should be dust all the day long, while there are others living around us,
never molested, rolling along. Farther along we'll go on about it. Farther
along we'll understand why. Tear up my brothers living in sunshine. We'll
understand it, oh, by and by.

TUCKER: Over the past five years or so there's been a small revival or
reinvention of terrific pop rock music that rarely gets noticed in the music
industry, with acts like Fountains of Wayne, Brendan Benson, Apples in Stereo,
Supergrass and, yes, The Smoking Popes, creating smart, fast, loud melodic
music that is at one thrillingly accessible and heartbreakingly obscure. The
Smoking Popes attracted enough of a following that their demise has inspired a
new album called "Tribute," covers of Popes' songs by even more obscure bands
than them. It's heartfelt stuff, but like virtually all tribute albums,
aimless and pretty worthless. Better to pick up on the CDs by The Popes
themselves or this worthy epitaph for a band that never received its proper
due.

GROSS: Ken Tucker is critic at large for Entertainment Weekly. He reviewed
the just-released final album by The Smoking Popes.

(Credits)

GROSS: I'm Terry Gross.

Mr. CATERER: (Singing) When you walk through a storm, hold your head...

DATE March 24, 2003 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: Hampton Sides discusses his decision to not be an
imbedded journalist in the Iraq war
TERRY GROSS, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

Imbedded journalists traveling with the military are bringing us extraordinary
reports from the battlefield, and they're risking their lives to do it. My
guest, Hampton Sides, was almost one of them, but at the last minute he had
second thoughts and backed out. He explained why in an article published in
The New Yorker's March 24th edition. Now he's in Doha, Qatar, covering
Central Command. Sides is a contributor to the online magazine Slate and is
also writing for Men's Journal. He's the author of the World War II book
"Ghost Soldiers," about the Bataan Death March.

Earlier today we called Hampton Sides in Qatar to talk about covering Central
Command, life in Qatar, where public opinion is against the war, and his
decision not to travel with the military.

Was there a specific moment when you said to yourself, `That's it. I can't go
through with this. I am not going to be an embedded reporter'?

Mr. SIDES: Yeah. I had had doubts all week about it, but I think that the
moment for me was when there was a fairly--fairly vivid discussion about what
would happen if you were to throw up in your gas mask--with your gas mask on.
And the question was raised--it was ac--actually a serious question because
nausea is one of the--you know, one of the first symptoms of some of these
chemical agent attacks. And the young instructor who was giving us this
tutorial clearly had never visited that question before. It was sort of a
fine point that he had not considered. And--and he talked--you know, tried to
imagine--well, he--he showed where the clear--the clear valve was where
you--you should blow out, you know--if you throw up, you would blow it out of
this valve.

And, you know, I was just--you know, I had my gas mask on. I was listening to
this conversation. I was looking at all of us soon-to-be-embedded journalists
out there on the tennis court at the--at the Hilton in Kuwait City and I said,
`You know, I don't know if I can--I don't know if I can do this. I--I--I
don't know if I'm going to--I'm going to be confident enough to--with my
equipment in case something were to happen.' I think--I think that was really
the moment for me.

GROSS: Did you feel like, `But I have to go through with it; otherwise I'll
be a coward'?

Mr. SIDES: Definitely. You know, I think there was--there is about the
embed process--there was kind of a--maybe a--a macho peer pressure. Most of
us were--were guys, and many of us were, you know, very, you know, seasoned,
hardened war correspondents, or what--what I might call military hardware
geeks, you know, people who live and breathe this stuff. And we were--you
know, there was a--a forward momentum as we--as--as the days wound down and it
was about time to embed where, you know, of course we're going to go through
with this. We all had our doubts. We--we all were scared. There was endless
articles in the Kuwait newspaper about all the things that we thought Saddam
had to throw our way. We kind of spooked each other out at night telling, you
know, biochemical ghost stories. So--so, yes, I mean, I think we were all
scared, but--but there was a--a pressure to go ahead with this at all costs.

And--and, you know, I--I fully intended to do it right up until the very, very
end. It was--it was really the last night before the buses were going to come
take us away that I--you know, I just--I looked at--you know, I looked myself
in the mirror and I said, you know, `I--I don't need this. I--I don't have to
do this. I'll turn in my chem suit and try to cover this war in some--in some
other way.'

GROSS: Did you tell any of your fri--friends who were also going through this
embed training process that you were leaving, and what kind of reaction did
you get?

Mr. SIDES: Yeah. That morning I--I did, two--two guys in particular who
became buddies of mine. And, you know, I--I did expect--I did expect a kind
of a--a, you know, like, `You wimped out' kind of thing. And--and, in fact,
the reaction was--was just--they--they totally understood. I think they were
maybe perhaps a little bit envious of me. I--you know, but they understood
that this is a decision that everybody has to make in their gut, and--and--and
they have to go with it. And they--and once you do make that decision you
can't look back. And--and really I--I--I don't know if it was the right
decision or the wrong decision, but I know that it was the right decision for
me at--at that time, and I haven't looked back.

You know, the--there is a kind of curious dynamic to this war, which is that,
you know, we are trying to prove to the world that Saddam Hussein has these
weapons. We want him to have these weapons. He better have these weapons, or
else in some ways it val--invalidates the stated purposes of--of--of the war.
And we--we would have to have good reason to believe that if he has these
weapons he would use them.

And--and so I--I kind of went into this feeling like not only--only was I not
quite sufficiently prepared, you know, in terms of just dealing with my
equipment, but also I kind of felt like we were--the embedded reporters were
kind of like lab rats, you know, going into an experience--kind of a--an
experiment, a chemical experiment. We just don't know what's going to happen.
And--and let's hope nothing does happen. But as they get closer to Baghdad I
think there is a great fear that some--you know, God forbid, the--the
unthinkable will happen.

GROSS: You said you had other doubts, too, all week during your training
process. What were some of your other doubts?

Mr. SIDES: I wasn't sure what the embedded process was really going to be
like. You know, I know that when--and I thi--I think it still remains to be
seen, you know, the--what's going to happen in terms of the quality of the
reporting. We've seen some very vivid footage: live battle--battle scenes.
And--and--and I think overall the--the reporters have--have--have been given a
lot of latitude to report pretty much what they--what they're seeing. But,
you know, I had some doubts about what embedding--what--what--you know, how
was this going to limit my experi--my experience, my--you know, you get
embedded with one unit and you are necessarily constrained by--you know, by
that one very limited vantage point. So I--I guess I--I was somewhat
concerned about that.

And I was also concerned about the fact that I was given the ver--poten--well,
arguably the most dangerous embed slot on the battlefield, and this is purely
by luck of the draw. I didn't know about it till I got to Kuwait, and they
said, `Well, you--you're going to be with 1st Recon of the 1st Marines. And
recon is, by definition, you know, the eyes and ears of--of--of the Marines.
And the Marines are, as you've seen, I think, you know, front and center.
In--in all the battles of southern Iraq already, they've--they've been
everywhere. And I think that influenced my decision as well.

I mean, I--I--I--you know, if this had been a different slot, and there are so
many--I mean, hundreds of embedded slots. And some of the slots, of course,
are actually quite dull and quite boring. I talked to one guy who was--was
going to be with something like the 313th Support Wing, which in--you know, is
involved with moving supplies around. And he said he was going to write the
definitive MRE story. You know--you know, he was trying to make--put the best
face on...

GROSS: Right.

Mr. SIDES: ...what was essentially a dull slot.

GROSS: But--but a...

Mr. SIDES: Mm-hmm.

GROSS: ...supply convoy was ambushed. I mean, that--that could be pretty
dangerous, too.

Mr. SIDES: Yeah. I think that that illustrates another point that, you
know, in this kind of ground war there are no safe--quote, unquote, "safe" or
"unsafe" slots. I mean, it--you know, it's a very fluid battlefield.
That--the--the lines are not clean. There are these enclaves and--and there
are, you know, all--you know, pockets of resistance all--all--all up and down
the battlefield, so in a way no one is safe.

And luckily so far nothing has happened to any of the embedded journalists.
There have been, unfortunately, some unilateral journalists who--who have been
killed or are missing, as--as you know. But, you know, I'm crossing my
fingers and just, you know, hope and pray that nothing happens to these guys.

GROSS: What kind of journalistic guidelines were you given during your
training about what you'd be able to reveal and what you wouldn't be able to
reveal?

Mr. SIDES: We had to sign some ground rules, which, if you read them, were
fairly--they all made sense. I mean, they really had to do with--especially
with reporters who were broadcasting live from a battlefield.
These--these--most of the restrictions would not have applied to me because I
was writing a magazine piece that would have been published a month or so down
the line. So the real concern was giving away information that the enemy
could--could use and--and that would jeopardize, you know--jeopardize the
safety of the soldiers. The unit commander always had--had control over, you
know, when you could file and, you know, if you were in the heat of battle you
had to--you had--you had to get, you know, the consent of the unit commanders
if the situation was not--was not safe.

And there were some other restrictions that had to do with the use of lights.
Television crews are not allowed to use light in nighttime situations where
they--they feel like they're in danger. Mo--most of the ground rules were
actually quite commonsensical. And as far as I know, no one has violated or
even attempted to violate those ground rules.

GROSS: And what about protection? Were you expected to be protecting
yourself, or were you supposed to get any protection from the unit that you
would have been traveling with?

Mr. SIDES: The one thing--yeah. Part of the rules of--of the embed process
were that you are not allowed to carry or use a weapon. You're not allowed to
protect yourself. You are fully, you know--you're protected by--by your unit
that you're embedded with. And, you know, I--I don't--I think that it would
have been viewed as a very bad PR situation if--if one of these
embed--embedded journalists were to get hurt or, God forbid, killed. And so,
you know, I did feel that the Marines, in my case, would have taken care of me
to the extent possible.

You know, we--we had to provide our own flack jacket and our own helmet--our
Kevlar helmet. And, you know, we were presumably gonna--gonna be kept back a
little bit from the action. But again, as we've seen, the action is all
around. It--it's in pockets all over the place. And it's impossible to
assure the safety of--of a journalist. You know, if you think that, you know,
you can just be held back a--a ways from the front lines.

GROSS: My guest is journalist Hampton Sides. He's in Qatar, where he's
covering Central Command. We'll talk more after our break. This is FRESH
AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

GROSS: If you're just joining us, Hampton Sides is joining us by phone from
Qatar. He's a--a journalist who had planned to become an embedded journalist,
but at the last minute, during some of the germ warfare training, he decided
to back out.

So the--the unit that you would have been embedded with, had you decided
to--to stay with that, was--was the Marine 1st Recon Division. Have you been
kept--keeping up with that unit that you would have been embedded with?

Mr. SIDES: Only in bits and pieces. It's--it's hard for me to keep up with
them personally. I don't have any ma--mode of communication. But--but, you
know, they've cropped up. I mean, the first--1st Recon have cropped up in
news stories, and certainly the 1st Marines are everywhere. I mean,
practically every major firefight or--or pocket of resistance has ended up
involving the 1st Marines. So they're very much in the thick of things,
as--as I was told they would be, and, you know, I'm not surprised.

GROSS: You were going to be covering the Marines, who have a reputation for
being really strong, tough, macho. How did they see you as a
report--port--port--porter? Were you considered like a different specie,
or...

Mr. SIDES: Well, the--they--you know, they had been told that this embed
thing was--was an important--an experiment, basically, and that it had to
work. And they--they--you know, all around the Hilton, I mean, you know--you
understand I didn't actually go to camp out with them. I was--the buses were
literally leaving that morning...

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. SIDES: ...and I decided I couldn't go through with this. And so--but
all the Marines around the--you know, the Hilton, all the public affairs
officers, all the various representatives were just--I mean, just very--yeah,
I mean, they did kind of look at us a little different. I think there was a
little mutual sizing each other up. You know, there's always been a--a level
of, I'd say, mut--mutual distrust between journalists and--and--and the
military. But--but at the same time, you know, this is a whole new ball game.
This embed thing is an experiment. It seems to be working. And, you know,
they--they were--they were, I think, bending over backwards to be nice to us
as they told us these chemical stories and as we got our shots. I go--I got
my anthrax shot and my--my smallpox vaccination. And, you know, the Marines
were right there with us kind of coaching us along.

GROSS: And would it be fair to say that the--this--this allowed you to see
the military in a way different from how you'd seen the military before?

Mr. SIDES: I'd say yes. You know, it's--it's--you know, and this is--what I
need to say here, the--when I made the decision not to embed it was a--it was
at a critical point because the buses were literally leaving to take us away
to camp out with these guys and to be with them finally, after much, much
talk. And that's when I knew that I--I knew this--this was the mo--this was
the moment where I had to decide because if I came under their care, if I
started eating their food and if I started camping out with them I knew that I
was going to become good friends with them. I love talking to soldiers. I,
you know, have written a book about--about soldiers in World War II. I--I
knew that it would be almost impossible for me to leave at that point.
And--and--and, you know, if I were going to hold my head up high and make this
decision, this was the moment, before--before the buses left. And, you know,
it was really critical for me to make that decision when I did.

GROSS: Do you think the dynamic of getting very close to the soldiers that
the journalists are covering and eating the military's food and traveling with
the military will affect their coverage, will affect the kind of journalistic
distance that you expect from journalists?

Mr. SIDES: Yeah. They talk about what they call the Stockholm syndrome, or
the military version of that, this idea that you come to sort of identify with
the guys that you're with in a situation like this. And I'm sure, to a
certain extent, that is inevitable. And there's another component of that,
and that is that these guys are literally defending your life. Your life is
dependent upon them. And so it will be difficult, I think, for journalists to
be entirely objective.

I think, you know, it's better than what we had in the first Persian Gulf War,
where we essentially didn't have this type of proximity. But at the same
time, yes, I think objectivity will be hard because you, you know, will become
over time essentially a member of the Marines. And, you know, it's going to
be hard to say something critical, if something critical is called for, about
a person that you've been camping with and who you've come to kind of feel
that you owe your life to. So, you know, that is difficult in a way, and
that's something that certainly occurred to me when I accepted this
assignment.

GROSS: You know, I think sometimes in war that imagination can be your enemy
because you can vividly imagine all kinds of ways of getting captured and
tortured and killed and gassed and so on.

Mr. SIDES: Absolutely. Yeah.

GROSS: And this could be your enemy. You don't want to be thinking about
that. You're not only, you know, a writer who uses your imagination as part
of your work, but you also wrote a book called "Ghost Soldiers," which was, in
part, about the Bataan Death March, a march during World War II in which
Americans taken prisoner of war by Japanese were marched for hundreds of
miles...

Mr. SIDES: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

GROSS: ...and the men who dropped during that march were either killed or
left to die. It's a horrible episode of war history, which probably could
only make your imagination even worse. And I'm wondering if writing that book
was almost a liability in preparing to be an embedded reporter?

Mr. SIDES: It's possible, you know, because I certainly did not, when I went
into this, think that it...

GROSS: Let me start by saying, because you had all the imagination from
writing this, but you'd never kind of experienced it. Sometimes experiencing
it can, like, exorcise some of those fears because you've been through it;
you've witnessed the reality as opposed to just imagining it.

Mr. SIDES: Right. Right. No. And I imagined all sorts of scenarios that,
you know, are actually playing out now that we've, you know, had four or five
days of battle. We've seen how many things can go wrong, you know, from
ambushes and false surrenders to prisoners of war being mistreated. You know,
we haven't really had a true ground war since Vietnam and, you know, we're
starting to see how messy--and I think Secretary Rumsfeld used the word
`untidy'--war can be. My book was certainly about, you know, that other side
of war that we don't talk about, like what happens when you lay down your arms
and become a prisoner, and, you know, all the other circumstances of war that
don't sort of fit into the kind of clean portrait and heroic portrait of war
that we're used to seeing.

So, yes, I think, you know, certainly, that chemical weapons are--I think
their main power over us is fear of the unknown, the uncertainty of what might
be coming. I've heard them called Saddam's `bogeyman weapons.' You know, he
may or may not actually have them in a capacity to use them. He may not have
delivery systems. But just the fact that he has them and the fact that these
chemical weapons are horrible I think preyed on all of our...

GROSS: Mm-hmm.

Mr. SIDES: ...you know, on all of us. And, you know, you just start
imagining VX or sarin gas. You start thinking about all these things could
happen. In fact, the odds of them actually happening I think are quite small.
These weapons are not very good. They tactically are not a smart weapon. You
know, the odds are very slim that Saddam would successfully be able to use
them and employ them in any way. And yet, you know, all of our thoughts were
kind of trained on all these chemical possibilities.

GROSS: Well, why did you want to cover the war to begin with?

Mr. SIDES: Well, you know, I think that this is a moment in our history
where we're going to see the tectonic plates shift. And, you know, I'm a
historian. This is almost like a front-row seat to history. I don't think
this is like other wars and other police actions that we've had. This is the
real thing, and the consequences of this war, and the repercussions, are going
to be felt for years and decades to come. And so I knew when I got this
assignment late in the game that I really wanted to see this unfold in some
way. I quickly found I was a little over my head in terms of this specific
embed assignment I got, but I knew I wanted to be here. This is history
happening, and it's happening on so many different levels. And it's such a
complicated war with so much world opinion mounted against us that I knew that
I wanted to be here to witness it.

GROSS: Hampton Sides speaking to us from Qatar in an interview recorded
earlier today. Sides is contributing to the online magazine Slate and
reporting for Men's Journal. We'll continue the interview in the second-half
of the show. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(Announcements)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

Let's get back to the interview we recorded earlier with journalist Hampton
Sides, who's in Qatar covering Central Command. That's not the way he planned
to spend the war. He was training to be an embedded reporter, but when he got
to the gas mask and chemical warfare suit, he realized this wasn't for him.
Now he's beginning a journal for Slate, the online magazine, and is reporting
for Men's Journal. I asked him what he's been doing in between covering
Central Command press conferences.

Mr. SIDES: Well, for many journalists, this has proved to be kind of an
Alcatraz sentence. For the first several weeks, there were absolutely no
press conferences, and there was kind of an information famine. Everybody was
going out to this place which has been built, out in the middle of the desert.
I don't know if you saw the movie "Capricorn One," but it reminds me of that,
sort of this huge hangar built out in the middle, literal and figurative,
nowhere, where suddenly you open the door and there's light and there's a set
and there's this kind of sense of, you know, computers humming and clocks set
to Greenwich Mean Time and, you know, this high-tech center in the middle of
nowhere.

So we'd go out there and just twiddle our thumbs and wait for something to
happen and wait and wait and wait. And then, finally, everything happened two
days ago when General Tommy Franks gave his first conference. And we've been
extremely busy ever since because, you know, the war is happening. There's a
million stories to run down. And yet we're also frustrated because it's
become quite apparent that a central command, a central clearinghouse, for
information is kind of an increasingly obsolete idea. You know, you don't
need that for news gathering when have reporters embedded all over the place.
You have unilateral reporters everywhere. You have news coming from Baghdad,
you know, live. You know, you have everyone on satellite phones and video
phones and, you know, video compression, which is the loudest--to see all
these imagines, you know, from multiple vantage points, you know, as it's
happening, I think it's kind of made Central Command kind of not nearly as
important as it would otherwise have been.

GROSS: Have you been watching TV a lot and watching the embedded reporters?

Mr. SIDES: Yes. And, you know, a lot of people are, you know, getting their
information from